David Cameron: Britain's EU Referendum to be held June 23

So your notion of democracy is literally majority rule. I am discussing the notion of democracy and what it means.

Where did I say that Remain won? I was posing the hypothetical. Please keep up.

No I was merely following your logic of majority rules and positing where it ended. Keep up.

 

So it's undemocratic to not follow the will of the people who by a 52-48 margin want something (to leave the EU).

But it's perfectly democratic when 90% of the population wants more gun control for the gov't to instead listen to the NRA.

Makes total sense.

 

Me: I view having a second vote because the first vote did not go the way the government wanted as un-democratic.

You: What if it's the will of the people? 52/48 decide to remain in the EU second referendum are you going to say best out of 3?

Me: In what reality did Remain win?

You: I was posing the hypothetical.

My new response: Your hypothetical dismisses the vote results to hold a new vote, because you dislike the results of the first vote. I said having a second vote is un-democratic. Do you see how your second vote hypothetical isn't a problem with me not keeping up now? If it is the will of the people to have a second vote they can vote in a government with that on their manifesto as they did in order to get this vote. You didn't give that reason. Your reason is, you don't like the outcome.

 

As others have noted this isn't a binding resolution and a lot could change before the the withdrawl is formalized. At the moment we're still seeing how things are shaking out and even many of the Leave side are expressing regret while Johnson appears to be hedging.

I will agree though that Cameron is done
.

 

I still doubt the Brits are going to leave. Going through the motions to get there would probably rip apart the UK before they even hit an agreed upon deadline.

Those couple of million signed petitions will probably serve as some fodder for Cameron to take another hit on his zombie credibility and either call a 2nd vote or set an earlier stage for his successor to do it over.

It's pure chaos in their government right now and a week's recovery for some operational capacity is real generous with the ****show going on now.

 

Not only that but the people who championed it are nowhere to be found.

You have to hand it to Trump and the Brexit thing overall. Poor ISIS, they lost all the attention and no longer are in the spotlight. They just lost their last major stronghold in Iraq, and they released a video threatening SF and the media hardly noticed as Brexit Brexit with a dose of Trump is dominating the news cycle.

 

Not really. The result was unprecedented that both sides, the UK and the EU, don't know how to even start negotiations but there is an emergency meeting between heads of state of the EU sans the UK. The UK government is assembling a team to handle negotiations, probably a cross-party team from both the Tories and Labour but without Nigel Farage.

No way this doesn't pass. The UK will burn if the government doesn't pull through.

 

I'm reading things about shadow cabinet ministers resigning and both Labour and Tories going through the motions while following a mandate they themselves don't believe in.

I'm sure the team will be capable, but they're definitely from a neutered position on either side of the table.

 

There's a massive disconnect between their electorate and political class. For both the major parties, the Conservatives and Labour to be opposed to more than half the voters shows this. That's why it's been said this vote is a protest vote. It's the working class, the people from Old Labour. Labour thought their voters from the GE were pro-EU like they were. They didn't realize those people aren't happy with the Blairite way Labour's running things and were just voting for them because they won't vote Conservative.

The Conservatives will be busy reorganizing themselves first. They'll need to decide on who succeeds David Cameron. Supposedly, it should come from the Leave side. Boris Johnson seems to be favorite. But, that said, there's suspicion the Leave half of the Tories never really expected to win, either. Both Michael Gove and Boris looked like they were in a funeral after the announcements. They idea is that they just wanted control of both sides of the argument than let an outsider like Farage into the debates.

But I have no doubt they'll pull through with getting out of the EU. They'll get taken out of office if they do, peacefully or otherwise. Farage is waiting on the wings.

 

God help the British and her allies, and I'm not religious. The results of the vote amount to a burst of collective insanity. Thousands who voted to "leave" now regret making essentially a protest vote for something they assumed would fail. I think they should have a "do over." A second vote because of the huge number of signatures calling for one, many from those now regretting what they did. I hope it happens. If it does and "remain" wins, then sanity will prevail, as will democracy. In my opinion.

 

The day after the referendum, the President of the European parliament Martin Schulz, the President of the European Council Donald Tusk, European Commission president Jean Claude Juncker and President of the European Council, Mark Rutte issued a joint statement saying the UK needed to leave "as soon as possible, however painful that process may be."

Any delay would unnecessarily prolong uncertainty.

http://indy100.independent.co.uk/ar...mpaigners-have-already-uturned-on--W1OT88vaNZ

Major is wrong, as usual.

 

About the UK going the Norway-route, how will this be politically viable considering a large chunk of the population voted Leave due to immigration issues?

 

As usual, you need selective hearing to justify your viewpoint. The EU leaders are not the only people that matter - we've seen that over and over during the Greek crises. Their voices are secondary to the leaders of the major countries.

Not surprisingly, we've already seen that play out and power of Merkel's voice in the discussions. After meeting between the various countries, the EU is putting the brakes on.

http://www.wsj.com/article_email/af...eparture-1466983952-lMyQjAxMTE2MTIzNzEyMzc4Wj


Pressure abated on the U.K. to serve swift notice of its intention to leave the European Union after last week’s referendum, as senior European policy makers suggested Britain should be allowed time to rethink the decision.

Senior officials from 27 European Union states met in Brussels on Sunday and agreed that they would have to wait at least until the appointment of a new British prime minister, likely to be in October, before the U.K. notified them formally of its intention to quit. This marks a shift from recent days, when foreign affairs ministers called on the U.K. to announce it would leave as soon as this week, allowing negotiations over an exit to begin.

In Berlin and Brussels, officials suggested they would wait until the chaos in British politics subsided and leave open the possibility that the U.K. would have a change of heart.

...

“Politicians in London should have the possibility to think again about the fallout from an exit,” Peter Altmaier, Chancellor Angela Merkel’s chief of staff, told a consortium of German regional newspapers in an interview to be published on Monday. To leave now would be “a deep cut with far-reaching consequences” and the process of reapplying for membership would take a long time, Mr. Altmaier added.

EU officials said the view that the U.K. should be given time to rethink had growing sympathy in European capitals, including Rome and Dublin. “If they treat the referendum as a nonevent, we’ll treat it as a nonevent,” said one senior official in Brussels. “The [democratic] decision of the people today can overturn the democratic decision of yesterday.”

...



As usual, you're unable to see the forest for the trees. You see one small thing and just regurgitate it over and over without any ability to put context around it or see the larger picture of what's going on.

 

Should be Billary in the 90's for the US not W..

 

Uk might have started the next great world recession. China was already slowing down and this might have pushed it over the edge.

 

Calm in the eye of the storm. Got to let those folks soak in what they have done and see if they really really want to move forward. Chances are small, but it would not surprise me at all that they won't actually exit!

 

Major talking nonsense.

Facts proving Major wrong.

Major changing the story (as usual).

How hard is it for you to simply admit that your statement was wrong?

 

So will they Breixt Calm tho??

 

Why is there such an obsession to prove one part of one sentence was wrong when the poster is following up with interesting information and links, and perhaps changing his rhetoric as he learns more about a situation?

I know there is history between y'all, but I find the evolving EU stance a million times more interesting than the feud bull**** and "you typed ten words that were WRONG!" that dominates these threads. Just saying. I would bet everyone but the 2-3 people feuding kinda agree.