David Cameron: Britain's EU Referendum to be held June 23

dmoneybangbang · Jun 25, 2016

Bobbythegreat said: ↑

It does astonish me how some people here can have such consistently awful opinions on damn near everything. The idea that people who consider things like sovereignty, liberty, and due process to be nothing more than impediments to the goals they seek actually exist is just insane IMO.
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That's a pretty pie in the sky view point.

Bobbythegreat · Jun 25, 2016

Northside Storm said: ↑

So...you disagree with the United Kingdom as well. 85% of Westminister MPs are English, and they dictate policies to the Scots, the Northern Irish, and the Welsh.

And there are components of the EU where you have a check and balance from elected officials--why do you think Nigel keeps on getting so much facetime as an elected European parliamentarian. Am I to take from this that you have problems with the European Commission, but not the European Parliament?

You know, it's really easy to say "I have a problem with everything!" as it avoids having to discuss any particulars.

If you had read my posts, you'd have already known I think this is a net positive for several factors, but it's hard to discuss specifics with somebody whose response to anything is "sovereignty!" "due process!" "liberty or death!" "you're an anti-liberty diehard!"
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SMH, look I'm not going to get into this with you because if I'm honest, I don't respect your opinion any more than that crazy Trump supporter, RocketsLegend. When you take stances that are anti sovereignty, anti liberty, or anti due process I'll point it out, but I'm done having long discussions with you. It does no good so there's no point.

dmoneybangbang · Jun 25, 2016

Bobbythegreat said: ↑

SMH, look I'm not going to get into this with you because if I'm honest, I don't respect your opinion any more than that crazy Trump supporter, RocketsLegend. When you take stances that are anti sovereignty, anti liberty, or anti due process I'll point it out, but I'm done having long discussions with you. It does no good so there's no point.
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So you can't actually explain your viewpoint outside of sound bites? That's fine, just move along then. It seems there's a lot of ignorance from Americsns and English about what exactly is happening.

Bobbythegreat · Jun 25, 2016

dmoneybangbang said: ↑

So you can't actually explain your viewpoint outside of sound bites? That's fine, just move along then. It seems there's a lot of ignorance from Americsns and English about what exactly is happening.
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I've done so many times in this thread and I don't plan on getting bogged down trying to discuss things with an idiot. I could spell things out in the best possible manner and it would do no good with some. I've learned not to bother.

Sweet Lou 4 2 · Jun 25, 2016

Commodore said: ↑

to give an idea of how much control unelected EU ministers had over British life

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/wor...azy-EU-rule-on-serving-olive-oil-say-MPs.html
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A. It was done because there is pervasive corruption where other oils are substituted for olive oil

B. It was never implemented - this is like saying there is too much regulations, and then giving an example that isn't even a regulation as it never made it.

But maybe it should have considering that most olive oil you buy at the store is crap

http://www.eater.com/2016/2/4/10903992/olive-oil-fraud-dangers-prevention

A recent 60 Minutes broadcast shed some primetime light on an issue that’s currently plaguing the olive oil industry: rampant fraud, largely accredited to organized crime groups in Italy.

by Khushbu Shah
While the so-called "Agromafia" just recently got its 15 minutes of primetime fame here in America, olive oil fraud is nothing new: A 2010 study by the University of California, Davis tested 19 popular olive oil brands — including big names like Bertolli and Colavita — sold in the U.S., using chemical and taste tests to find that nearly 70 percent of the bottles labeled "extra-virgin" didn’t meet the parameters to be labelled as such. (Even Rachael Ray, the Food Network star credited with bringing the acronym "EVOO" into the popular vernacular, was found to be hawking mislabelled extra-virgin oil.)
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dmoneybangbang · Jun 25, 2016

Bobbythegreat said: ↑

I've done so many times in this thread and I don't plan on getting bogged down trying to discuss things with an idiot. I could spell things out in the best possible manner and it would do no good with some. I've learned not to bother.
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Maybe, but so far all I have seen from you is sound bites about sovereignty and Liberty. That really isn't a position but a political bumper sticker.

adoo · Jun 25, 2016

RocketsLegend said: ↑

Congratulations UK. The people are fed up with globalists.
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blissful ignorance !

the immediate impact on UK will be economic contraction. all the UK firms w operations in other EU countries will likely layoff a large professional staff.

higher unemployment and lower wages will follow.

w the falling currency, this amounts to an open invitation to rich foreigners (MNCs, consortias and individuals) to gobble up bargains (businesses, real estate, etc) in the UK

so, instead of
Chinese hedge funds buying controlling interest in a profitable hot co in the UK, they can now buy more

rich Chinese buy RE in North America, they can buy more in the UK

middle class Chinese struggling to send their kid to universities in the US, they can more easily send the kid to the more affordable UK universities

Chinese MNCs (such as Baidu, Alibaba, etc.) buying a local competitor in the UK, they can buy more

Chinese financial institutions incurring exorbitant cost to gain entry to the UK market, they can easily buy out UK financial institutions

Bandwagoner · Jun 25, 2016

adoo said: ↑

blissful ignorance !

the immediate impact on UK will be economic contraction. all the UK firms w operations in other EU countries will likely layoff a large professional staff.

higher unemployment and lower wages will follow.

w the falling currency, this amounts to an open invitation to rich foreigners (MNCs, consortias and individuals) to gobble up bargains (businesses, real estate, etc) in the UK

so, instead of
Chinese hedge funds buying controlling interest in a profitable hot co in the UK, they can now buy more

rich Chinese buy RE in North America, they can buy more in the UK

middle class Chinese struggling to send their kid to universities in the US, they can more easily send the kid to the more affordable UK universities

Chinese MNCs (such as Baidu, Alibaba, etc.) buying a local competitor in the UK, they can buy more

Chinese financial institutions incurring exorbitant cost to gain entry to the UK market, they can easily buy out UK financial institutions
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You really have a problem with chinese and FDI.

Also formatting. You have a huge ****ing problem with formatting.

Amiga · Jun 25, 2016

http://www.newstatesman.com/politics/uk/2016/06/i-want-my-country-back

Colorful and good writing. Lots of parallel with the US.

I want my country back
This was never a referendum on the EU. It was a referendum on the modern world.

BY
LAURIE PENNY

This morning, I woke up in a country I do not recognise. David Cameron’s big gamble – the future of Britain against his personal political ambitions – has backfired so badly that we’ve blasted clean out of the EU. By the time I’d put the kettle on, the stock markets were in free fall, Scotland was debating a new independence referendum, Sinn Fein was making secession noises, and the prime minister had resigned.

There’s not enough tea in the entire nation to help us Keep Calm and Carry On today. Not on a day when prejudice, propaganda, naked xenophobia and callous fear-mongering have won out over the common sense we British like to pride ourselves on. Not on a day when we’re being congratulated by Donald Trump, Marine Le Pen, and nobody else. Well done, turkeys. Santa’s on his way.

Nigel Farage, the rich, racist cartoon demagogue, boasts that this victory was won “without a single shot being fired”. Tell that to the grieving family of Jo Cox, the campaigning Labour MP gunned down last week. Farage promised that unless something was done to halt immigration, “violence will be the next step”. It looks like we’ve got a two-for-one deal on that one.

So, here’s the thing. This was never a referendum on the EU. It was a referendum on the modern world, and yesterday the frightened, parochial lizard-brain of Britain voted out, out, out, and today we've all woken up still strapped onto this ghost-train as it hurtles off the tracks. Leave voters are finding they care less about immigration now that their pension pots are under threat. Maybe one of the gurning pundits promising them pride and sovereignty should have mentioned that, but they were too busy lying about the NHS. The curtain has been torn away and now we all have to look at the men behind it. They are not good men.

Anyone feel like they’ve got their country back yet? No? That, after all, was the rallying cry of the Leave campaign – the transatlantic echo of "Make America Great Again". There’s a precedent for what happens when svengalis with aggressively terrible haircuts are allowed to appeal to parochialism and fear in the teeth of a global recession, and it isn’t pretty.

It says something about this campaign that I’m no longer at all worried about risking hyperbole or unoriginality when referencing all that Nazi history they made us study in school. I’m just frightened. I’m frightened that those who wanted "their" country back will get their wish, and it will turn out to be a hostile, inhospitable place for immigrants, ethnic minorities, queer people – everyone and anyone who wasn’t included when Farage proclaimed victory for "ordinary, decent people" this morning in front of a posse formed entirely of angry-looking, whey-faced blokes in suits.

But the thing is – I want my country back too.

I want to wake up tomorrow in a country where people are kind, and tolerant, and decent to one another. A country where people – all people – can feel at least a little bit safe. I want to rub the sleep of neofascist nightmares from my eyes and find myself in a country where we do not respond to the killing of a politician by voting against everything she stood for. A country where we are polite to our neighbors. A country where we have dealt like adults with the embarrassing fact that we once conquered half the world, instead of yearning for a time when our glory was stolen from enslaved people a convenient ocean away and large parts of the map were the gentle pink of blood in the water. I want to go back to a Britain where hope conquers hate; where crabbed, cowed racism and xenophobia don’t win the day; where people feel they have options and choices in life and are less likely to press the big red button to bring the house down on top of us. I want my country back.

That country, of course, is fictional. But it’s no less so than the biscuit-tin, curtain-twitching, tea-on-the-lawn-with-your-white-friends-from-the-Rotary-Club fantasy Britain the other side have been plugging for years, editing out all the ugly parts of the past and photoshopping it into the backdrop for an image smeared indelibly across the back of all our sickened eyeballs this morning, an image of fists raised and boots marching in step. If they’re allowed their fantasy, can I have mine, too?

The Welsh have a word for this feeling. The word is "hiraeth". It means a longing for a home you can never return to, a home which may never have existed at all. The Welsh, incidentally, voted to leave the EU after decades of being ungently screwed by government after conniving Tory government; cackling and tearing the heart out of towns which were once famous for something other than teen suicide. Finally, someone gave them the opportunity to vote for change, for any change at all. When all you have is a hammer, every problem starts to look like David Cameron’s face.

Cameron, who today must be longing for the morning when all he had to deal with was the papers claiming he once had sex with a dead pig in university, sold us all up the river that runs through the chasm of British culture. In a sop to the eurosceptic wing of his own party, he gambled the future of the nation and the political stability of the continent for his own career.

The whole mess started because of a disagreement between rival factions of a right-wing government which is still tearing itself apart and taking the rest of us with it. The fractured Left, unable to unite behind a leader with a popular mandate, was nowhere in this conversation until it was far too late. Cameron promised a referendum in order to pander to the rise of a xenophobic far right and secure his own power: he got his wish, was duly re-elected, and now his career is over, and so are the life chances of millions of young British people. He gets to slink off back to Oxfordshire and live off his family money. Don't weep for Hameron. He'll be fine.

If only the same were true of the rest of us. As it stands, tens of millions are going to suffer. Real people are going to hurt. Real people are going to die. That is David Cameron's fault, more than anyone's. It was right for him to resign, but he will surely be replaced by any one of a rogues' gallery of gurning ideologues who have been decrying “experts” and “elites” to people so desperate for change that they didn’t care that those elites are people their wisecracking white knights literally went to school with.

This morning it looked like Britain had shot itself in the foot. By lunch time, with two political parties imploding and the stock markets crashing, it appears our aim was higher above the knee. This was not just a vote against Europe, but a vote against Westminster and the entirety of mainstream politics. Every political party campaigned hard for a "Remain" vote – but Britain still chose to Leave, even if we’re regretting it this morning.

There are huge areas of post-industrial decline and neglect where people are more furious than Cameron and his ilk could possibly understand, areas where any kind of antiestablishment rabble-rousing sounds like a clarion call. In depressed mountain villages and knackered seaside towns and burned-out former factory heartlands across the country, ordinary people were promised that for once, their vote would matter, that they could give the powers that be a poke in the eye. Westminster may have underestimated how very much it is hated by those to whom mainstream politics have not spoken in generations.

In desperation, the Remain camp begged us to think of the markets. Unfortunately, everyone here hates the markets. Fear-mongering over "the economy" was never going to work when the most deprived areas of the country have already suffered years of savage right-wing austerity in the name of safeguarding "the economy". Those parts of the country clearly felt that things were bad enough already, that they had little enough to lose that they could gamble the rest on the possibility of being lied to. British people are used to being lied to by incompetent spivs in the name of "protecting the economy". Unfortunately, this time the spivs were dead right.

As the tattered remains of the government try to work out what Brexit will actually mean in practice, more damage has already been done to our economy, to our prospects and to the job market than years of open borders ever could have.

In the meantime, the cackling clown-car drivers rolling this catastrophe over the wreckage of civil society are already cheerfully admitting that they lied about their key campaign statements. No, there won’t be £350m more to spend on the NHS, whatever Vote Leave wrote on its battle bus. It turns out that the reason you can’t get a GP appointment isn’t because of immigration, but because the Conservatives have spent six years systematically defunding the health service and cutting public spending to the bone. Brexit will mean more of that, not less.

This was a working-class revolt, but it is not a working-class victory. That’s the tragedy here. The collective howl of rage from depressed, deindustrialised parts of the country bled white and reckless by Thatcher, Blair and Cameron has turned into a triumph for another set of elites. Another banking crisis, another old Etonian in power – that’s what we’ve got to look forward to as Scotland decides when to let go of the rope and the union splinters into jagged shards and we all realise we’re stuck on a rainy rock with Michael Gove, forever.

I wish I could tell you that we’re about to turn this around. I wish I could tell you that we’re about to collectively realise, even at this late hour, the magnitude of our mistake – that we will discover a new capacity for tolerance, a new resilience, a way to recover ourselves and remember our common humanity. I wish I could tell you that the cannibalistic, scattered Left will rally. Today, I don’t want to make any promises. All I see is a lot of racist crowing on the internet and campaigners being told to go back where they came from. I’ve already had people telling me it won’t be long before a new Kristallnacht, and people like me had better go back – where? I was born in London. Perhaps the city can secede. That’ll do wonders for house prices.

This Britain is not my Britain. I want my country back. I want my scrappy, tolerant, forward-thinking, creative country, the country of David Bowie, not Paul Daniels; the country of Sadiq Khan, not Boris Johnson; the country of J K Rowling, not Enid Blyton; the country not of Nigel Farage, but Jo Cox. That country never existed, not on its own, no more than the country the Leave campaign promised to take us to in their tin-foil time machine. Britain, like everywhere else, has always had its cringing, fearful side, its cruel delusions, its racist fringe movements, its demagogues preying on the dispossessed. Those things are part of us as much as beef wellington and bad dentistry. But in happier times, those things do not overwhelm us. We do not let bad actors reading bad lines in bad faith walk us across the stage to the scaffold. We are better than this.

I believe we can still be better than this. I want my country back, and it’s a country I’ve never known, and getting there will take more strength, more kindness, more resilience than this divided nation has mustered in living memory. Meanwhile, I’m putting the kettle on again. Today is a day for mourning, for retweeting sick memes and holding our loved ones close. Tomorrow – well. Tomorrow, we get to work.

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dmoneybangbang · Jun 25, 2016

Bandwagoner said: ↑

You really have a problem with chinese and FDI.

Also formatting. You have a huge ****ing problem with formatting.
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Well.... Anyone who actually thinks Brexit will do anything to slow down globalization is blissfully ignorant.

Bandwagoner · Jun 25, 2016

So she wants a far more liberal Britain to exist even though it has never existed. The un-democratic nature of the EU is part of the reason the far right is gaining power in europe as it is.

When I see her picture I am shocked that she is outraged.

Here is another great article where she is quoted about how the entire internet is sexist.

Bandwagoner · Jun 25, 2016

dmoneybangbang said: ↑

Well.... Anyone who actually thinks Brexit will do anything to slow down globalization is blissfully ignorant.
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Most of the arguments I heard for BREXIT were increased globalization took away the need for the UK to be involved in the political union of europe.

LosPollosHermanos · Jun 25, 2016

Bandwagoner, when was it first that you realized you were such a b****?

Just curious, it must be harding being a puss all the time.

Bandwagoner · Jun 25, 2016

LosPollosHermanos said: ↑

Bandwagoner, when was it first that you realized you were such a b****?

Just curious, it must be harding being a puss all the time.
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I don't speak r****d, could you translate this word for me? Better yet, talk about the topic instead of Northside Storming it up.

AroundTheWorld · Jun 25, 2016

LOL True Beaner getting pwned, as usual.

LosPollosHermanos · Jun 25, 2016

Bandwagoner said: ↑

I don't speak r****d, could you translate this word for me? Better yet, talk about the topic instead of Northside Storming it up.
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Well, the reason I called you a puss is the same reason you don't understand anything relating to that word. I'm sure it shouldn't be a problem at 40..50 even? If you're that insecure about your manhood, stop parading it around on this forum and get some sildenafil. Listen, we realize you have a sorry life, but it doesn't help with you begging for sympathy swooping down and getting b**** punches in.

You're an embarrassment.

LosPollosHermanos · Jun 25, 2016

AroundTheWorld said: ↑

LOL True Beaner getting pwned, as usual.
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I hit show post---and this is exactly what I meant. Textbook asspergers white knighting the other loser.

You get that psych eval yet?.. Or should I let Bandwagoner answer that for me?

AroundTheWorld · Jun 25, 2016

Poor True Beaner.

LosPollosHermanos · Jun 25, 2016

Here's the list of mental shortcomings to add. Stalk's fellow CF poster's sister, swoops in with Bandwagoner (other loser who licks knobs), and thinks that a former moniker is an insult?

Were you abused as a child? What were you thinking stalking Batman Jones' sister and Sweetlou...plus the countless others we don't know about?

Bandwagoner · Jun 25, 2016

LosPollosHermanos said: ↑

swooping down and getting b**** punches in.

You're an embarrassment.
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That's hilarious considering you had one post in this entire thread before you decided to show up and just pathetically insult me whilst day drinking. Clean yourself up.

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