I'd trade #13 for Davis without a doubt. The guy is flat out hustle, or at least he was in Indy. Maybe not in Portland b/c they stuck him on the bench. If we were lucky, we could get rid of Cato too...but is Portland stupid enough to take him back? They do need a center. ------------------ Now saw off...there's nothing to see here.
Actually Dale Davis didn't singlehandedly keep the Pacers in that series in the Finals on the boards. Austin Croshere was a monster, especially on the offensive glass, in terms of energy. Also, Dale Davis IS NOT a better rebounder then Webber. Davis has only averaged double digit boards ONCE in his career, and that was back during the 93.-94 season. Webber has averaged double digit boards 4 times in his career, including the last 3 seasons in a row. That's telling since Davis has been mostly a rebounding specialist while Webber is a well-rounded player and has to be a main offensive option. As far as defense, Davis may be a good defender, but Webber has averaged MORE blocked shots in his career then Davis! Davis I believe averaged 1.3 blocked shots per game in his career, Webber 1.8. Webber averaged over 2 blocked shots per game twice in his career, in the 93-94 season, his rookie season, and the 98-99 season. Davis has NEVER done that in his career, so I think Webber's defense is GREATLY underestimated. People are judging him on this playoffs season like they're judging Duncan, but both of Webber's ankles were injured, severely hampering his lateral movement and explosiveness. ------------------ "I'm not here to protect my reputation, I'm here to make my reputation! Mama Barkley didn't raise no chumps!" - Charles Barkley [This message has been edited by RocksMillenium (edited June 19, 2001).]
The best stat is rebounds per minute per $million dollars per yr. rbm\mil. Davis clearly wins on this measurement. ------------------
Mmanal: But Webber still gets the benefit of the doubt because he's consistently averaged 10 rebounds. We have absolutely no idea if Davis could do it regularly - there's a difference between being a spark off the bench energy-guy, and being the featured PF. People who play limited minutes are going to have higher per minute production because they're better rested, and as aelliott worded it, they "don't have to pace themselves. I admit: maybe Davis really is a better rebounder than Webber, and would be such for the Rockets. But all the "tie-breakers" line up in Webbers favor: age, actual superior rebounding stats, the fact that rebounding was a secondary concern for Webber, and finally, the fact that Webber's simply more athletic. ------------------ Lacking inspiration at the moment... [This message has been edited by haven (edited June 20, 2001).]
Haven, If Dale Davis's totals were like Jerome Williams where JYD gets really good RPG for only 20 MPG, then I'd buy your argument. JYD gets 6.5 RPG in 19.7 MPG for his career. However, Dale Davis's total is already so close to Webber's 8.8 vs 10.2, and Dale played far fewer mins. Also, you are allowing the other factors to affect your judgement; it does not matter what other skills Webb brings to the table, the question was/is REBOUNDING. Your tiebreakers make very little sense. Rebounding is not about age, athleticism, etc. its about work ethic, desire, boxing out technique etc. Athleticism plays a secondary role but not as big as the others, otherwise Cato would be an excellent rebounder. If age was a determinant of rebounding, then Rodman wouldnt have led the league in boards so late into his career. Like I said earlier, this argument at best is inconclusive. There is no way you can parade around and say Chris Webber is a better rebounder than Dale Davis as if it was some kind of fact. ------------------ Check out the Best Source for Draft Info Draftsource.net [This message has been edited by MManal (edited June 20, 2001).]
Mmanal: Also, you are allowing the other factors to affect your judgement; it does not matter what other skills Webb brings to the table, the question was/is REBOUNDING. Your tiebreakers make very little sense. Rebounding is not about age, athleticism, etc. its about work ethic, desire, boxing out technique etc. Athleticism plays a secondary role but not as big as the others, otherwise Cato would be an excellent rebounder. If age was a determinant of rebounding, then Rodman wouldnt have led the league in boards so late into his career. No, I'm not letting other factors entre into the equation. You asserted that if Aelliott is correct, then we can't accurately determine which player is the better rebounder. I assume, since this is the roster and game action forum, that you're speculating as to Webber/Davis' potential rebounding contribution to the Rockets. Athleticism and age are key influences on rebounding ability. I think that your comparison of Cato and Rodman confuses the issue: you do realize, I hope, that anyone who even dreams of playing in the NBA is supremely athletically gifted. There are tons of people out there who work just as hard as Jordan ever did, with no results. Yet, these hard workers don't make it to the NBA. People like Kelvin Cato do - who has no work ethic at all, just athleticism. It's the combination of work ethic, knowledge of the game, and athleticism that brings success. Chris Webber *is* more athletic than Dale Davis. I don't think you're denying this. Athleticism *does* affect rebounding ability. Is it definitive? No. But we'r elooking for tie breakers here. Advancing age *does* correllate with diminishing abilities. Davis is older. he is therefore statistically more likely to experience decline. May not happen; but it's *more likely*. Hakeem started declining around 35. Davis isn't too far away from that. Which would be the better rebounder for the Rockets? I believe it would be Webber. Even if the statistical debate is a wash (which neither of us agee ), the tie breakers go to Webber for future-likelieness of productivity. ------------------ Lacking inspiration at the moment...
If the point your trying to make is who would you rather have on the Rockets, then you have to make the comparison fair. The question is would you rather have Davis and Mo or just Webber? The sum of Davis's and Mo's salaries will roughly equal what Webber will command. The folks that were/are against Webber basically made the point that the Rockets would not be able to acquire the enforcer on the frontline that they lack b/c Webb would eat up the entire cap space. Also, Dale Davis is only 32 yrs old and still has plenty of ball left in him imo. I think Davis will be the type of player that will still be effective late into his career like Charles Oakley is b/c his success is not dependent upon quickness and athleticism. Davis is the player he is b/c his rebounding and position defense are very fundamentally sound, and he simply plays the game hard. ------------------ Check out the Best Source for Draft Info Draftsource.net
I'm of the same camp as Rudy and CD on this one: 1 great player is better than a couple of good ones . ------------------ Lacking inspiration at the moment...
Maybe one great player is better than two good ones...but then the real question is: will Webber be as great with the Rockets as he is with the Kings? I don't think so. There's no way he averages 25 ppg if he signs with us. He'd be lucky to average 20. I think Davis and MoT would be better on the frontline than Webber and some stiff at center. One important aspect to think about, and something Manal alluded to, is that not only do you get a rebounder in Davis, you get an enforcer--someone that you don't want to get fouled by. Davis is stronger and a better low post defender IMO as well. Salary wise, it would be a lot easier to move one or both of the smaller contracts than it would Webber's at 12-13 mil, and I certainly don't want to see the Rockets get into another Scottie situation again. ------------------ Lisa, I'd like to buy your rock...
Count me in on that, too, Haven. ------------------ Some days you eat the bear. Some days the bear eats you.
