Got to go with Manual. Dale Davis is the man. Is a better rebounder and defender than Webber. If we also had Antonio Davis with Mo Taylor and Davis we would be a threat to go to the Western Conference finals. Too bad we're not in the East or we would go to the finals, barring all the pieces falling in place for Orlando. Don't you remember Dale Davis in the finals two years ago with Indiana? He was single handedly keeping the Pacers in contention on the boards against the Lakers. ------------------
Bonzi Wells....Yes, we should get him as our SF. Honestly, with our 3 1st Rounders, we'd be lucky if one of the three pan out to be a starter type. So i know it may sound a little steep now, but if i could get Bonzi for our 3 mid-low first round picks, i would. Just like in '98 with our 3 first rounders, in retrospect, wouldnt you trade Turckan, Bryce Drew, and Dickerson for a Bonzi Wells type of player who Passes, shoots, rebounds as a SF? ------------------
isn't bonzi wells 6-5? not that 6-5s cant play sf. i think bonzi was impactful last year because opposing sg had to defend him one on one and he'd abuse them by posting up. he was pretty quick for his size (faster than say 6'10" danny ferry guarding him) but his high fg% was because of his bulk. next year the double team's gonna come the minute he plants his heavy behind on his defender. and yeah he can pass to the open guy, but still his advantage over guys his position is leveled with the new rules. on dale davis, i'd trade #13 for him if rockets cant trade down (or is it up?) in the draft or at least get who they want at that position. ------------------
Correct me if I'm wrong but Davis and Wells are two things that are NOT wrong with the Blazers, aren't they? Seems like they'd want to keep them. I'd give the #23 pick for Davis-- no more. Wells will be the same threat to Mobely (though he is signed now) that Mo Pete was to have been. Can't use him. Don't want him. I hate overpaying for veteran players. We did it with Barkley and we are still paying the price. Horry and Cassell go deep into the playoffs in someone else's uniform. ------------------ "How far you go in life depends on you being tender with the young, compassionate with the aged, sympathetic with the striving and tolerant of the weak. Because someday you will have been all of these."
Rich, this is a great quote, and it is very appropriate for the experiences of this Rocket team over the past 15 years. "How far you go in life depends on you being tender with the young, compassionate with the aged, sympathetic with the striving and tolerant of the weak. Because someday you will have been all of these." ------------------
Dale Davis is the man. Is a better rebounder and defender than Webber Uhh...No. Davis has averaged double figure rebounds only once in his career ('93-'94). Webber has a career average of 10.1 and he's averaged 13, 10.5 and 11.1 rebounds for the last three seasons. Davis is a good rebounder, but Webber is better. ------------------
The chances of us drafting someone at #13 who will have the same effectiveness as Dale Davis in his first 2-3 years is slim. Heck, if we manage to draft someone at #13 who will end up being as good as Davis in their prime, I will be pleasantly suprised. Like MManal mentioned, Davis brings the little things to do the table that often go unnoticed. For those looking for a PF to shut down the Duncan's/Garnetts and Wallace's, they're on an impossible journey. Davis is as reliable as they get on defense, and adds the mental and physical toughness this team needs. Whether or not he can still effectively play in 3-4 years when Francis and Mobes will be in their primes is the only concern. Azim da Dream ------------------ "Snacks and drinks for five friends to watch game seven of the Stanley Cup finals at my house: $75. One authentic Avalanche sweater to wear while cheering on the team: $285.00. Seeing Ray Bourque lift the Stanley Cup for the first time in his 22-year career: PRICELESS." - Jeremy Elkins, hockey fan from Memphis http://www.clutchtown.com
Good post Rocksmillenium! You're right I was judging Webber on his weak play in the Laker's series this year. I really didn't pay much attention to him until he was a possible Rocket. After all the hype that he would make us a championship contender, I was disappointed he loked so soft. This could certainly be due to his injuries. ------------------
Millenium and Aelliott, sorry to say but glynch's comments are straight on target. If you guys want to quote stats, quote them correctly. Yes Chris Webber has a career average of 10.2 RPG to 8.8 RPG for Davis, but there is a huge difference in minutes per game. Davis only has a career average of 29.2 MPG to Webber's 38.1 MPG. The proper way is to look at this is with per minute stats. Webber - Rebounds per minute - .2677 Davis - Rebounds per minute - .301 As far as the defensive stats, Webber leads by a tad in the blocks per minute category. Webber - Blocks per minute - .0472 Davis - Blocks per minute - .0445 I chose to do per minute stats, but stats per 48 mins can also be computed and give similar results. Dale Davis is on a similar shot blocking level according to the stats. As far as the subjective portion of the analysis, Davis is a better one on one position defender than Webber imo. That being said, glynch's comment that Davis is a better rebounder and defender than Webber holds water. ------------------ Check out the Best Source for Draft Info Draftsource.net [This message has been edited by MManal (edited June 19, 2001).]
MManal you have to look at it this way to. Obviously per minute Dale Davis averages more, but how many rebounds per game would Webber average if he focused mainly on rebounding instead of being the main offensive option? What if one year Webber concentrated mainly on rebounding and blocking shots? I'm pretty sure his average would jump up significantly. That's why I think that Webber is just as good at rebounding as Davis, though I think Davis is a better, more intense one-on-one defensive player. ------------------ "I'm not here to protect my reputation, I'm here to make my reputation! Mama Barkley didn't raise no chumps!" - Charles Barkley [This message has been edited by RocksMillenium (edited June 19, 2001).]
I don't think that per minute stats really tell us that much. Obviously, Dale Davis isn't simply a scrub who collects rebounds at the end of games. But playing fewer minutes is going to mean you're going to have more energy. Not being the "feature" guy on a team also means there's less pressure, you're not going to get as banged up, and that you can play a more niche role. Unless you're Shaq, it's sometimes harder to rebound your own miss than someone else's. I think the question: why *was* Davis playing fewer minutes is also applicable. Besides, Davis is *older*, and will likely degenerate more quickly. And I really don't like Davis' lateral quickness, ------------------ Lacking inspiration at the moment...
Millenium, The point is, you cant just use pure stats on one end to show that you think Webber is a better rebounder then turn around when you forgot to factor in MPG and say Davis only concentrates on rebounding. Bottom line, the question was who is a better rebounder, Webber or Davis and my opinion is still Davis. The question was not who is the better all around player or who concentrates on rebounding more, the question was who is a better rebounder? Haven, Do you seriously think that Davis could not make up 1.4 RPG in 9 extra MPG? Davis grabbed 8.8 RPG in 29.2 MPG and Webber grabbed 10.2 in 38.1 MPG. Thats very little difference in a lot of time difference. Also, it should be pointed out that the debate is not whether Davis is a better player than Webber b/c he isnt. Webber plays the mins he does b/c he can drop in 25 PPG. The question was, who is a better rebounder and defender, and I feel it is clearly Davis. If you want to stretch this into a scenario question, who would you rather have Dale Davis and Mo Taylor or Chris Webber? The salaries of Davis and Mo will roughly equal what Webb will command. I like Webber a lot, but I'd have to choose Davis and Mo if I had the choice. ------------------ Check out the Best Source for Draft Info Draftsource.net
I think comparing per minute numbers is the best method of comparison, but the other factors have to be considered, too. Davis plays fewer minutes because he is a less complete player than Webber. Therefore his per minute production is not as impressive. I would much rather have one Webber than a Davis/Taylor tandem. When either of those guys is on the floor, you have an element missing that is present with Webber. ------------------
Not in this year's draft. ------------------ "norm, would you like to buy an indian scalp ? This deal isn't gonna make or break me Norm, so don't jerk me around." Harry Carey "Norm, if I had a mohawk scalp, I wouldn't be sitting here talking to you."
Another aspect left out in Davis rebounding numbers: In Indiana he played alongside of Antonio Davis and in Portland he played alongside of Raseed Wallace. 2 pretty good rebounders in their own right. ------------------ When you are courting a nice girl an hour seems like a second. When you sit on a red-hot cinder a second seems like an hour. That's relativity.- Albert Einstein
Taking a players stats/minute and projecting them out over increased minutes isn't valid. As a players minutes increase, his output won't increase in a linear fashion. Using the projecting minutes approach, then Jerome Williams is a better rebounder than Webber or Davis. ------------------
Aelliott, Simply looking at RPG and completely disregarding MPG isnt valid either. How can you so nonchalantly say that Webber is a better rebounder by quoting their stats when Webb only had 1.4 RPG more in 9 extra MPG for the career? Forget linear increases, Webber barely has more in a LOT more time. I think the problem here is that you are letting the other parts of their games cloud your judgement. This is simply who is the better rebounder. There is no way a guy that boards 8.8 per game in 29.2 MPG can be said to be a worse rebounder than someone who takes 38.1 MPG to get 10.2 RPG. Davis's mins and totals are a whole lot closer to Webb's than JYD's is, thus Dale is a much more valid test. ------------------ Check out the Best Source for Draft Info Draftsource.net [This message has been edited by MManal (edited June 19, 2001).]
No thanks,will never wish to have this guy on the Rockets roster.I don't argued about his interior defense, but the guy has no offense night after night.For $7 million, I don't think so!! ------------------ Rudy T. will find and fulfill Rockets destiny.
MManal, If Davis has to play 40 minutes a game like Webber, then he'll be pacing himself. Davis has to prove that he's able to play big minutes before you can say he's a better rebounder than Webber. Right now, Webber has proven that he can do it for 40 minutes/night and Davis has not. ------------------
Aelliott, If thats the case, then at best the argument is inconclusive. There is no way I would believe that Dale could not grab 2 more boards in 9 more mins pace or no pace. Just watch the guy play, he is an incredible worker under the glass and really does an excellent job of boxing out and getting position. We'll have to agree to disagree I suppose, but I strongly believe Dale Davis is a better rebounder than C-Webb. ------------------ Check out the Best Source for Draft Info Draftsource.net
