it is no contest. DMo can play center and Power Forward effectively. TJones is more of a Power Forward / Small Forward. I am a big fan of both. But DMo can be special. Asik could not play power Forward. and Dwight can not play power Forward.
San Antonio had Splitter. Lebron started at PF for Miami, so I guess you're technically right about that. But he's ****ing Lebron. He could start at any spot and the team would still contend for a championship. That standard is whack. I'll give it to you though. 3/15. You're completely wrong. And the stats you just referenced are so overly simplistic that I don't even know what to say. Jones and D-Mo are both below average shooters at the PF spot. Good shooters at PF include: Aldridge, Nowitzki Ibaka, Anderson, Bass, Average shooters include: Anthony Davis, Markieff Morris, Griffin, Harris Compared to those guys, Jones and D-Mo are both below average. Which I consider to be bad. Citing their FG% does no good because most of those shots come from close to the rim opportunities. Go look up Jones/D-Mo's jump shooting percentages. It's not pretty. This brings up the same point once again. Most of Jones' FG's come as a direct result of gimme buckets from Harden. In serious games and the playoffs those are less likely to happen. That's when a guy like D-Mo who can create his own offense and get you a consistent two points by grinding in the post will come in handy the most. D-Mo has a huge advantage on offense because of that reason alone. Broski, I watched every single Rockets game last year and I have most on torrent that I watched parts of again. I've also watched most every game this year twice due to Root Sports repeats. I don't need to go back and watch his highlights from last year. Jones' had more opportunity so it seemed his handles are so much better. But D-Mo's handles are right up there. Plays like this could not happen otherwise: Spoiler <iframe width="560" height="315" src="//www.youtube.com/embed/Tf_FTE-4CIM" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe> You thinking D-Mo does not have better passing ability than Jones is laughable at best and downright ignorant at worst. Once again, you're looking at the stats in an over simplified way. D-Mo is a ton better at passing than Jones. He can make every pass on the court. He keeps the offense in motion with his passing and the ball never "gets sticky" with him. He does not get direct assists as much because usually he has the hockey assist that leads to the basket. This isn't even debatable. I can't believe anyone would actually watch the games and have that opinion. Also, D-Mo has the ability to pass out of a double team and actually make the right pass, which is amazing. Jones lacks all of this. Here's a sweet highlight since you like watching those: Spoiler <iframe width="560" height="315" src="//www.youtube.com/embed/y6VD1n2KqdU" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe> Perhaps you should go back and watch the games more carefully. Lol please. D-Mo's defense in every single way is better than Jones aside from weak side shot blocking. That's it. D-Mo's help defense is way better. Watch how many effective double teams are a direct result of D-Mo. His positional defense is amazing. His court awareness and basketball IQ are well above average. Jones looks lost as to where to be on the defensive end. Which is why he has routinely been exposed by opposing PF's. Do not make me bring up Jones' defensive stats. It wont be flattering at all. Here's another thing that the stats do not tell you. D-Mo's intangibles are a lot more than Jones as far as I see it. The guy sets screen after screen after screen on offense leading to better quality of shots for his teammates. I already mentioned the hockey assist so that does not need to be repeated. Then there's the fact that he actually knows how to take charges and things like that on defense. That offsets his inability to block shots (which by the way he still blocks some shots). He also alters a lot of shots due to being 7"0' alone. You can't relegate a guy who thrives off of confidence and makes your team so much better in every facet of the game like D-Mo to the bench. That'll just lead to poor results. I am sure McHale understands this. The PF was "wide open" for the taking at the beginning of the season for a reason. McHale knows Jones' weaknesses better than any of us. D-Mo has taken the starting PF spot. He's not going back to the bench. McHale, as much as some here would like to make him out to be, is no fool.
Excellent post. I don't know why fans feel they need to belittle one player because they like a different player on the same team. The Rockets did great to start off the year with Jones as our starter. The guy can play with our team, and help the team win. DMo has stepped up and helped the team with a legit post presence. Both guys have helped the team, and both can contribute. I'm okay with either one being traded if it's truly a step up for our team. But with what they've showed us so far it may take more to step up our team with someone else they are traded for. I'd love it if we can keep both guys. No matter who the team goes with as the starter, I will cheer for that person and the other guy as a valuable back up. I want the best for both of them, and have confidence that either or both of them can play a part in making this team winners.
Because while it isn't broken it still needs an upgrade to establish true dominance. There will be a trade. Past precedence does not always dictate future events, but in this case it more than likely will. Morey is not sitting idly by. He's working the phones constantly and will end up with a trade that pushes us a big step forward. He did it twice in the 08-09 season (our closest to contending) when he got Artest in the off-season and Lowry at the trade deadline. Those results paid dividends and I think we would have possibly gone to the Finals had Yao not gotten injured. You can almost certainly expect something again. One of the players that we trade whenever it happens will either be a PF or a PG. That means D-Mo (not likely) or Jones, otherwise Bev or Canaan.
Yep 18-5, all this team needs is time together - they are a contender as assembled, no need to mess a good thing up. Something for nothing into the TPE is fine, but no players need to go that are contributors. DD
DD your opinion on this sort of thing is not very credible due to the number of times over the years you've become enamored with infatuation over one player or another. You always want your favorite players to stay and never see the bigger picture. The team became better after letting Chandler go (a move I'm sure you were vehemently against) and after letting Brooks go in the past which I know you hated. It also became better after getting rid of Bud, a move I think you were also against. I won't even bring up V-Span and how Morey turned him into Scola. It has happened time and time again. One or two of D-Mo, Jones, Bev, or Canaan will be gone. The team will be way better for it. If history has any credence at all (which is not necessary but in this case probable) those two will probably be Jones/Bev.
That is your opinion. So, we have opinions, which is fine to disagree. 18-5 - that is the record of this team with all the injuries. We are two deep at every single position - you don't need superstar players everywhere, and when your chemistry is this good - you don't make stupid trades just to make stupid trades. If something comes up that is cheap and it is end of bench players or picks or the TPE going out, sure, but not the key guys, when Dwight can opt out next year - you have a very short window and this team is ready NOW as assembled. That is my .02 - which are as valuable as yours or anyone elses. DD
Agreed. It would be silly to not explore all trade options involving jones/bev. Bev can't run the offense or pass into the post and Jones, as has been exhaustively explained in this thread, isn't what we need at PF. We aren't quite a contender yet, but if DMo continues this amazing play as he has the past 12 games, we are a lot closer than I thought.
That TPE needs to be used. That + NOP pick + our stash of 2nds + our rookies and 2nd year players (Capella, nick, Canaan, Daniels) and salary filling players (Garcia, terry) would be on the trading block to deepen the bench. I'm good with the starting lineup.
Yeah, agreed on that - .....though would like to keep either Johnson or Canaan as I think both will be solid rotation level players at the PG position. DD
I disagree. Someone who lacks the ability to objectively look at the state of the team because they have a history of infatuation with young up and coming players, well....their opinion has a little less merit. This has always been your position "don't trade player x!" The team is rolling. Then that player usually gets exposed at one point or another. As I mentioned. Then that player usually gets traded or let go. That's not an opinion. That's a fact based on what has happened multiple times.
From what I'm reading the only area you guys disagree on is the willingness to trade Jones and Bev. Neither of you are high on trading Dmo. The problem with trading Jones (and I'd sooner trade jones than Dmo) is that his value is low right now with injuries so I doubt DM trades him until he gets back into the rotation and I don't see him pumping his value back up before the trade deadline. I'd trade Bev but you have to get Dragic back or a serious starting PG that compliments harden. That's not easy to find. Bev is going to get paid soon so DM has to decide on if he's going to commit to him or trade for another PG. Really that's the only point of difference right now unless we're talking trading ariza or KPap and if that's the case it'd have to be for a serious upgrade for a swing player because losing depth there would cripple this team.
You're implying that Morey's work is done, which just isn't true. Our record is 18-5, but we haven't separated ourselves from the rest of the pack in the Western conference and other teams are also looking to improve. We have deficiencies on this team and everyone besides Dwight and Harden are upgradable. If we were the clear cut best team in the NBA right now I might understand your stance, but we're not. The Spurs were 61-21 and traded one of their best young players, third year George Hill, for a draft pick choice of Kawhi Leonard. Long term thinking for a team with a short window, but it resulted in two finals appearances and Leonard winning finals MVP. Our championship window isn't closing, we're still building up to it.
Last season we were 13-6 with TJones after 19 games. This season we are 14-5 without TJones after 19 games. Last year we played 0.6849 ball with TJones in the lineup This year we are playing 0.7368 ball without TJones in the lineup. Last year we were 12-7 in Terrence's first 19 starts. This year we're are 14-5 in DMo's first 19 starts. Last year at this same point in the season Jones was being crowned a future All-Star, future star, and future superstar by many posters here while I pointed out that Jones was playing with Dwight and Harden and we really hadn't played anybody tough. I made the argument that Jones' contributions to us winning could be replaced by many different players in the league. This year, Tarik Black has replaced Jones (while DMo replaced Dwight) and we've had a better record. I rest my case. You guys that think Terrence is or is going to be such a difference maker......good luck with that. I hope Terrence gets well soon. And I hope somehow he gets some minutes so he can look good and we can trade him for a better fitting piece to our championship puzzle. But good luck with him being a star/superstar/All-Star. He's simply just another player until and unless he learns to shoot the 3-ball effectively or becomes a lockdown defender of 4's in the NBA, neither of which he currently is.
I think that it can be argued that improving and creating that separation in this conference can happen by developing our young players, developing chemistry, and getting everyone healthy rather than necessarily trading. Now if KD or a tier 1 star becomes available at the 1, 2, or 4 spot then that's a different story. But if we're talking about an incremental upgrade at these positions I'm starting to think the better value is keeping some of these guys, getting healthy, and using our non essential assets to build for depth. Again if KD suddenly starts talking about FA or even Milsap....then guys not named howard or harden become part of the conversation.
It might just be me but I don't see many people pushing the jones is an all star waiting to happen narrative. If anything I think people might be pushing jones in response to your posts that diminish him. If you keep saying the weather is too warm for December people just start arguing that it's actually not that warm at all and maybe too cold. And then you have a debate that didn't need to be had at all.... Just an observation.....
Such a weird comparison. With that logic I could say that we're better without Dwight. There are many differences from last year's team. Jones is a very good offensive big, he will help the team if he ever gets back from an offensive standpoint.
