I'd say this is really his biggest issue. He can get away with being out of shape in college, he won't be able to do that in the NBA. And unlike basketball skills, that will to stay in shape is something people can't help him with. If he can't stay in shape during the most important period of his life, it makes me wonder about his ability to stay in shape when he has millions in th e bank.
No links to studies, just observation. I can't think of many people I've known (for a long period of time) that are disciplined, focused and have strong work ethics who didn't display it sometime before adulthood. But maybe, somehow, the light-bulb will go off for Cousins and he will change his ways. Doubtful, especially for NBA players.
You have every right to your opinion. Most 6' 11" high school kids/college frosh stars aren't well-conditioned. They get by on a talent edge. All I'm saying is that I see things in this kid that don't remind me of Derick Coleman or Mel Turpin or Oliver Miller or Chris Washburn at all. I thought this guy had a pretty solid reputation as an already good basketball player; I don't get the comparison to Olowakandi? Guys are talking about Cousins already being able to score in the NBA game. Olowakandi never could get there is his several seasons. He played at Pacific and Cousins at Kentucky-- one of the highest profile college programs. You can isolate these characteristics I've cited and conclude they mean nothing or you can take them as a package and try and interpret them in light of how Cousins might turn out. Then we face the variables along the way: what team and what system does he get into? What kind of coaching does he get? How does a truckload of cash affect his work ethic... As someone said, some team besides the one that drafts Cousins might eventually be the beneficiary of his talent. Or he might bust. My money goes with the third option: he'll hit the ground "running" and fare pretty well.
In that case, you're making an incredibly limited and biased observation. Not that it really matters in general, as everyone can have an opinion. But it doesn't really facilitate your argument. I mean, I can make the following argument. "Chuck Hayes went to Kentucky. Chuck Hayes is a big man. Chuck Hayes has great work ethics. Hence, Kentucky big men has good work ethics" which leads to... "Cousins is a Kentucky Big Man. Therefore, he works hard." There, Cousins is Chuck Hayes + Athleticism + Height + offensive skillz = guaranteed superstar.
Your argument bases it on Chucky Hayes, a single person. A3PO bases it on young people in general. And I actually agree with him. Very few people go from slackers to hard-workers. I've never actually heard of a slacker in college suddenly become a model player in the NBA. The more common scenario is you have all these big men relying on talent alone in college and being exposed in the NBA. I'm not saying I think Cousins will be a bust. In light of some articles I read about him I think he has amazing potential. However how much of that potential he can tap is something I'm not sure.
Really? A3PO and you both have met an significant random sample of young people, accurately judged their history and work ethics through your incredible observational skills, and come to a very qualified and correct conclusion regarding ALL people's work ethic? Anyone with even rudimentary statistics knowledge can call Bull**** on that.
I'm not saying it's applicable to all. A3PO and me are generalizing. Notice how we both said "very few" instead of "all": A3PO said there's no study to it and he's just basing it on his observations. I agree with his observations. Ergo, I'm just expressing my opinion and you can disagree with it if you want (A3po is wrong on saying its a fact though). When did I claim it was the gospel truth? However like I said maybe you can point out people who were slackers during their college years but became the model of hard-work and diligence in the NBA. And LOL at you saying you were just being curious then going on full sarcastic mode:
Maybe you could use his experience at Kentucky to gauge his success in the pros. He started out as being lazy and disruptive, but saw how everyone else was working hard and eventually began doing so as well. So i'm thinking, if he gets with a team that has a good veteran presence, he will eventually come along fine. At least thats what i am hoping.
Let's hope so, the NBA needs more traditional big men. Plus we might actually get him :grin: Big men fall one way or the other and his character issues might be enough to cause him to slip
The arguments against Cousins are natural and understandable. Work ethic is a real red flag, which very well may lead to weight issues that can derail his career if it gets out of hand. However to me, the positives far outweigh(no pun) the negatives. For many in this thread it comes down to hard work vs slacker. I ask does that really matter? I believe the saying goes: "Hard work beats talent everyday, when talent doesn't work hard." That's a fine story, and great for teaching your kids, but does anyone really believe that? There are millions of people who will never make it to the NBA, no matter how hard they work. Why? Because they lack the talent. That old adage left out a dirty secret: it only works when the talent is close or equal. My point? This may be where Morey's analytics trump traditional scouting. Numbers have no biases against "hard workers" or "bad attitude". Just who can produce. Cousins has one of the highest PERs in recent history. Whether he did that from years of hard work, or years of slacking off, really is inconsequential. In the end he did it. Shaq is notorious for taking the regular season off. Amare had as checkered a predraft history as any. Barkley has one of the biggest mouths out there. KG is hailed as "intense", yea, if he didn't produce he would just be called "*******". The point is I would love to have any of those guys, because they produce on the court and give you wins. I couldn't care less about the rest.
If Morey went by PER only, he would have drafted Fazekas(37.2), who had one of the highest PERs in history. He was higher than Cousins(34.4), Durant and Oden. He was certainly higher than Landry. We would have been screwed with a bust. There are more factors than just college production.
I fail to see the difference. If I say "Very few Clutchfans posters are intelligent" and try to pass that off as factual, then that's okay because I'm generalizing, and not pissing off everyone? Generalizing things the way you're doing, even if you claim it's not gospel, is how we have stereotypes, racial profiling, people believing in Glenn Beck, etc. I guess it's not wrong, per se, and I sometimes catch myself doing it. But I just don't like these things in general. But in the end, it's the internet. If you really want to believe that your observations can be generalized to society in general, then that's your prerogative. Sarcastic mode only went on when he claimed the statement as factual(the way he presented it) when he was just making an opinion based only on his own observation. I admit that my response's a little harsh. But as I said, this is one of my pet peeves.
Who said that he only looked at PER? All I am suggesting is that he may hold college production at a bit higher esteem than weight. Or height. Or speed, athleticism etc etc. And certainly higher than some PERCEIVED work ethic problem or immaturity. On the flip side, if Morey went by hard work only, hell, he may as well have drafted me! Then we can really talk about screwed.
Stereotypes? You are comparing being lazy (or having a poor work ethic) to a stereotype? Give me a break! Way to jump off the deep end. What in the world does this have to do with race? Or Glenn Beck? I didn't realize lazy people identified themselves as a group. I'll be very kind and just say your Chuck Hayes "analogy" has no application at all to my post. Zippo. Come back to planet Earth with the rest of us. If what I posted "offends" you or "pisses you off", I'm going to generalize again and say you are probably a walking tripwire. That probably "ticks you off" even more. LOL! Take a deep breath. If you don't agree, fine. Blowing it up like this and driving the train off the tracks is stupid. A couple more of your posts in this thread and it will belong in D&D. Let's keep that out of here.
Whatever. I just don't like people passing opinions as facts. Obviously, you do. So let's just agree to disagree on this.
I don't think it's a matter of a light bulb.. I'm not going to get into semantics about no one after the age of 20 (even though I think it's good to debate and have differing opinions), but I've know plenty of guys (and girls for that matter) who didn't crack down and self motivate themselves to work harder until their parents were ready to kick them out of the house at 25 or better. Heck it took me until I was forced into moving out myself after college before I really started working hard at anything I wanted to accomplish. In evaluating Cousins you have to take more than just what the media sees into consideration. Andy Katz is doing a full blown article on him later this week (I think it will be released then). Read that and see if you think a tiger can change it's stripes in the right environment. I don't think he's the type to be put in a tiny cage to be trained, and he can't be allowed to roam free in the wild to seek his full potential, instead he needs a good cat house filled with other cats for him to look up to. (how about that for an analogy)
So now it's whatever? OK. So now I obviously "like people passing opinions as facts"? Just go home son and take your little peeve with you. I highlighted where this should have started and ended.
I think a light bulb going off is a good illustration for people who make big, permanent lifestyle changes. The notion of getting kicked out of the house can do that. In fact, hitting bottom (or the threat/fear of hitting bottom) can be the spark that causes clear, realistic self-evaluation that leads to change. I get what you are saying about Cousins and I hope he lands in the environment he needs to be his best. For that to happen as you describe it, a good team might need to trade up in the draft to select him. Please post the link when the article is online. Very interested. Chatting about Cousins is whetting my thirst for summer league already.
