The talent and stuff is real, though... which is why he's still been competitive despite the lack of control and low K rate. He'll carve out a long career if he stays healthy. Has a better chance of developing/improving/possibly becoming an all-star vs. flaming out.
The problem is that he's shown no signs all through his minor and major league career of developing control or getting K's - if anything, it's all gotten worse as he's moved up leagues. "Stuff" is not very useful if you can't use it to get people out, and ultimately he struggles to do that, giving up lots of hits and walks. I don't think he'll flame out, but I'd place the bet on that if I had to choose between all-star vs flame out. I think league-average or worse is a realistic expectation for him.
Why doesn't Mansnick count as an attempted improvement at the MLB level? Because it's more convenient for people to disregard it and complain?
Uhh no, he doesn't have a BETTER chance of becoming an all star than flaming out. I love his natural physical talent, but to say he has a better shot at being an all star than flaming out and being a replacement level player is a real stretch. All of his advanced statistics are nasty and, as was said last year, they are starting to catch up to him. I won't rule out Cosart getting it done, but it is far from likely.
I thought you said people were forgetting about the comp pick.... I was responding to that. I'll respond to your above comment with your own words... you didn't really know who he was before today.
Cosart had the same issues in the minors that he has now, just more glaring in the big leagues. He just doesn't miss many bats and has serious control and command issues. He CAN be very good if he improves his weaknesses, but it has been years without much tangible improvement.
There are pitchers... all-star pitchers... who had worse track records through their minor league careers, and early MLB careers, than Cosart. "Stuff" allows him the chance to improve as that's the one thing you can't teach. And the fact that he's still able to post "good" (not stellar) numbers at each level, and stick at the MLB level after his initial promotion is a testament. I can't speak to his attitude/work ethic... but I'm guessing that was just as big of a part of the trade as how the Astros feel about his future ability to improve.
What does that have to do with anything? It's a fact that they acquired him with the hopes of him improving their MLB outfield immediately. Why doesn't that count for anything in terms of appeasing the people you described?
And yet he earned his way to the big leagues, stuck here once he got here... and put together a decent run of consistency prior to this month. He was NOT a bad pitcher for the Astros, and likely won't be a bad pitcher in the weaker NL. He has the ability to improve... just has to put forth the work. That's much different than somebody who is "incapable" of improving.
Again, your main point was describing the draft pick as being the "hidden gem" of this trade.. I just said why people don't care about the draft pick. If you meant that this guy who you didn't know about was the best part of the trade, you should say that.... but chances are, you (like most of Houston), hadn't seen a single highlight of this guy prior to today. Frankly, he really has no place in the OF once the current roster players are healthy (and I'm including Alex Pressley as somebody who still would rank above this guy), but he'll get a chance to stick just like Keekay did.
Who the hell said he is incapable of improving? Also, all of his advanced stats show his era was an anomoly and that has been proven true.. Last year he had more walks than strike outs... He doesn't pitch deep into games either. Cosart should do better in the NL and will get a shot to improve, but he has been a #4 quality starter in his career thus far and while saying "some with Cosarts peripherals have become all stars", you fail to mention the overwhelming majority of all all star pitchers didn't have Cosart peripherals at 24 years old and the vastly majority of guys with his peripherals never even sniff an all star game."
Another tough loss tonight. I really hated losing Kiki. I think he is going to have a long MLB career but I guess you have to give up something. Cosart will probably get better in the long run but I am not going to lose any sleep about giving him up. If the "potential" turns out to be reality then I think this trade will go down as a good one for us. Time will tell.
I don't really follow what you're talking about. I was responding to your response. You were the one who responded saying people were upset that they aren't attempting to improve the MLB roster. And to that I said (paraphrased), "well, that's not true either though". I never said I had heard of him or that he was the best part of the trade. That's all completely irrelevant. The FACT is, that he's an attempted improvement upon our current MLB roster by the FO. But I'm guessing you are just arguing for the sake of arguing at this point anyway.
Not really. Just explaining why the compensation pick isn't being looked at with much fan-fare. Even some diehard fans couldn't care less about compensation draft picks at this point.
That's his shtick. The Astros front office could release a statement tomorrow that simply reads "1+1=2" and I'm pretty sure Nick would find something to disagree with. I will say, at least his arguments have actual thought behind them and are grammatically correct. Can't say the same for many of the other guys that side with him.
I just hope that Marisnek does great. I mean if he can finally realize his potential, and hit .280 with a little power, and some speed He could bring us a couple of really good prospects at the trade deadline in 2016 And I know that Colin is farther away, but the guy has a high floor. He could be a .300+ hitter at the big league level with decent defense. If he could possibly get to Houston by next September, then by mid 2017 he could really bring us back some nice prospects
I just think you're possibly drawing more conclusions on a guy with only a calendar year of MLB starts than is warranted. Again, if he's so mediocre, he wouldn't have netted this "awesome haul". He obviously has value, just depends on how you perceive it or if you have confidence that you can get the most out of his talent.
Thanks for reading all of my posts and buying into my "schtick" (whatever that is)... For the record, I haven't been very critical of anything this year till the whole Aiken fiasco (for good reason), and I don't entirely agree with this trade although I feel the Astros made it more for work ethic/attitude reasons (and I can't really fault them on that). Unless I'm also not allowed to complain about Bo Porter. I've also been talking people off the ledge on Appel, rooting for a promotion to get him out of Lancaster, but apparently that's me "disagreeing" as well.
I like this trade because it tells me the front office has a lot of confidence in both how fast some of our pitching prospects and Moran can reach the majors. While it is sad today to think Corpus is the most interesting baseball team in Texas to watch, both Appel and Moran are good second halves away from being given legit shots to make the 2015 opening day roster.
