......because I don't see it. We need to get into the playoffs last year. Cuttino and Steve are approaching their primes and the team hasn't seen the postseason in 3 years. Those of you who believe that our team with Ming is better than our team with Odom next year need to have their heads examined. Odom instantly becomes a starter on the team and he has already developed a chemistry with our best players. Cuttino and Steve both want the guy and he wants to play for us. Ming on the other hand shows up at the beginning of the season having never played in the NBA or with ANY of his teammates. I am not so sure how he will fit in with our team or his teammates (a bunch of young black americans and a 7'5'' Chinaman?). If Ming does have the skills we have been hearing of then maybe we get to see them in a couple of years, if he isn't hurt. On that note let me ask, why won't the Chinese allow our docs to look at Ming? The ****e that we go through to get this guys only adds to the problems especially if he doesn't work out. He will not post up for atleast a year which means few offensive boards/put backs. There are just too many questions for the number 1 pick with regards to Ming (Jay Williams is who should go 1st). I really cannot believe that so many people are dissing the LAC deal, it is much more than fair. We get rid of Rice and the Ming headache in exchange for an all star (this is Odoms year) and two lottery picks that we can either package and move or pick the remaining pieces of our team: #8-Woods-Even if he isn't TMac, he could be the defender we need against bigger 2s and maybe he will be TMac #12-Hilario-6'10'', 260-The guy is HUGE and athletic, think a bigger, more polished Amare. #15-Ely-6'10'', 256-Another guy suited for the 4, but is strong enough to play the 5; one of the only seniors in round 1 Cato/Ely/Hilario Cato/Ming Taylor/Griffin/Hilario Taylor/Griffin Odom/Morris/Woods > Rice/Morris/#15 Mobley/Woods/Francis Mobley/Torres Francis/Moochie/Brown Francis/Moochie/Brown That team is 12 deep! We would make the playoffs without a problem next year. We lose our pick (Francis trade ) next year, but have 3 prospects all around the age of 20 (Griff, Woods, Hilario).
Man, your lineup is one of the WORST defensive lineups I have ever seen. Ming alone makes the Rockets a better DEFENSIVE team, and that is what is the easiest to correct and improve upon thus equaling more victories. Ming is the real deal, just let the Rockets brass make up their minds, and then root for the team. DaDakota
Houston + Odom = Dallas Lite. Rockets biggest weakness = low post presence + "D" I have as much or more confidence in Ming as I do Hilario, Borchardt, Stoudamire, or Ely. I am getting so burned out on the circular arguments in this and all of the related posts that this may be my last comment until after the draft.
I actually see room for developing a great chemistry here. Ming who, judging by his diaries and other things he's said, seems personable and funny. He will also be new to the league and the country and will need people to show him the ropes. It would be great for our young team to take young Mao out for a night on the town, clothes shopping etc. Actually it would make a hilarious sit-com. You saying that this is Odom's year, is no more founded than those who say that this will be Ming's year or that Ming will be better than Odom. I don't know if picking Ming will pan out or not, but it seems there are risks with either Odom, or Ming.
I hope this isn't an issue, but I'll give "young black americans" and the "chinaman" more credit than you did.
Our biggest need is a big man. He is the best big man in the draft. 7'6 guys who can shoot the lights out aren't a dime in the dozen. When you have a chance to take a potential franchise center, you do it. Don't settle to be safe, you dare to be great.
UT baller, I know this won't convince you but: 1) I assume you have not seen Ming play in person. I also doubt that you have even seen any whole games of Ming; at best just a clip or two like me. Maybe you would take into account the opinions of some of those who have and consider Yao a "no brainer". 2) Rudy has seen Ming play at least a couple of times in person and has coached against him, while observing Ming against NBA All Star Players in an actual game. (This is perhaps even better than an individual try out. 3) Carol Dawson has seen Ming play in person and at the Chicago tryout.. 4) Our scout toured with Ming for awhile. 5) According to reports all the calls for the first pick are for Ming. 6) The Rockets probably have available literally dozens of full game films of Ming playing in the CBA and various international tournaments for a several year period. 7) Ming was predicted to have been the number one pick by many last year as well. 8) There is definitely safety in numbers if we do the trade you are proposing, but usually quality over quantity rules in the NBA.
#8-Woods-Even if he isn't TMac, he could be the defender we need against bigger 2s and maybe he will be TMac ???????? are you kidding? know why woods is slipping? it is not just his drug use, but his LACK OF ANY KINDA D. anyone ever watched him play said he has the worst possible D out there, plus he doesn't seem want to play any D.
Replies, replies, replies.......... Dakota-The guy got backed down by Christoferson! I realize that at his height it will be difficult to shoot over him, but guys will be able to go right through him on their way to the goal. Until he gains strength, all we will see of Ming is potential. If he does to his upperbody what he apparently has done to the lower we'll talk. Also, Ming alone doesn't have that great of an effect on our D. The guy is going to foul......a lot. And about letting them (Rudy and Co.) make up their mind, what do you think this bbs is for man? Kicking around ideas and keeping tabs on the team. jwun-My point is that Steve and Cat are the leaders of this team and are basically the teams personalities and they don't want him. If we do indeed get the guy cultural differences abound and I am not so sure how his culture will mesh with the street culture of a lot of our players. I mean, we are not talking about a bunch of Shane Battiers or Grant Hills who are seemingly very much more mature and culturally savvy. Once again, this is but a potential problem but one we should consider (we definitely don't want bad chemistry on top of our other problems). If I offended I apologize, but I live in a very diverse city and very rarely do I: a) see a whole lot of asian/non-asian integration and b) the culture of many asian nations appear condescending which doesn't go over well with a lot of people. glynch- this is my point. None of us have seen the guy play. Highlights are just that, they only show the good and a bit of the bad. If there were extensive video of the guy doing something other than dominating 2nd rate comp than maybe I would hold a different opinion. I further disagree with your statement that the trade offers are attempt at getting Ming. The only team that wants him appears to be NYC and maybe Chitown. Old Man Rock-Mihm atleast played in the post where big men belong. Ming has said on numerous occasions that he plays a perimeter game. Come on y'all, 7'6'' playing on the perimeter? This is just a testament to how soft the guy really is. Watchmen-I never said that the guy plays great d. But a 6'9'' offguard is comparable to a 7'6'' post in terms of mismatches. Furthermore, Ming is as much a project as any player this side of Stoudemire and will take atleast a full season to show anything of what he might become. If Woods is the athlete he's touted as being then a season with good (ie not JUCO) coaching can help him improve into a terror on d. Guys, I am not a Ming hater so much as a Rocket lover. I want Steve and Cat to return our franchise to the promised land and we are not going to see the kind of production from Ming that other highly touted bigmen drafted #1 produced (other than the we got him 'cause he's tall Kandi and he's a great athlete Kwame). I am not nearly as worried about the center position as the rest of you. Aside from Shaq and possibly Duncan what centers do we need to worry about? I say we take the Jersey plan of getting a great talent and surrounding him with a lot of good players. So in this case I take quantity over quality. We are in the same position of NJ last year with a bit of Atl and LAC thrown in (ie we have our stars we need to add players to help them succeed). If you all had fun watching the playofffs then that's y'alls choice. I just really don't see how Ming takes us from dud to stud in his first year. And about Odom being the gamble that Ming is this is laughable. Look no further than the fact that Rudy and Riley have coveted this guy since he came to the L. Lets get real and decide what direction we are goin, back to the lottery or to the postseason.
If by approaching you mean maybe in the next 3-5 years?? Hakeem took 10 before he hit his, why would these guys prime so soon?
Ming is 7'5", and weighs 300lbs, he's built so he won't break down like other beanpoles. He can shoot lights out. How do you guard a 7'6" guy who can nail jumpers? He passes magnificently. How do you stop a pass from someone who's 7'6"? He's very mobile. You can't leave him open, he'll kill you, you can't double team him, because he's too tall and will pass out of it to a slashing Francis and Cuttino, or dump it to a wide open Taylor or Griffin for the open jumper. How do you defend that? Getting Odom makes a good team thats tough to match up with. Getting Ming means we're a great team thats impossible to match up with. P.S. - Drafting Ming also means we aren't giving the pick away to a Western Conference rival thats got exceptional talent, and only needs a PG to complete the picture.
Their are risks in every player in the draft... Is Woods that good??? Haven't seen Kedrick Brown(JUCO to NBA) do anything this past season... Ely is a tall Marcus Camby with maybe a little more size... Hilario has the exact questions as any big man coming from somewhere else... Is he physical, can he rebound, can he play defense and can he play on this level... Reason you take Yao Mingh is that he's 21 years old, 7'5 big man with great shooting ability... Don't know if you saw the Fran Blinebury article Thursday about why Houston should/could take Yao but it was exactly what I have thought... The article talks about Shaq's dominance and how long will it last??? With Shaq's body starting to take a toll, at best he'll play for another 4-5 seasons... In 4-5 seasons Yao will be 25-26 years old and should be coming into his prime... UTBaller if your expecting the quick fix for a playoff run then your looking at it the wrong way... The NBA Draft, nowadays, don't have the solid prospects they did in the 1980's... Every prospect is a risk... I can understand your doubts, sure I have some doubts about Yao but the upside is too big for the Rox not to take Yao #1... As I see it even if Yao plays this season I would expect him to come off the bench behind Cato for at least some of the season(beginning of the season)... He would need time to adjust to the players, the style and physical play of the NBA... I have no doubts about his abilities on the court... Honestly I think he fits Rudy T's offense perfectly... Running the high post like how they used Eddie Griffin this past season... Making the opponents big man have to come out or he kills you from outside... I don't think I've changed your opinion but I see it like this... The big man in the NBA is becoming a lost position... 7'0 footers like Raef LaFrentz, Dirk Nowitzki, Pau Gasol, Kevin Garnett, Brandon Bender, Odom, Thomas(Mil.) and Rashard Lewis all shoots 3's and play SF positions with the exception of LaFrentz... What I'm trying to say is that the dominant big man is fading with Shaq and could end with Tim Duncan... Having big men that can shoot is as important as a big man that can post up... PF's like to shoot outside(15 foot shots) like Rasheed Wallace, Webber, Maurice Taylor, McDeyess, Walker and Garritty... The post position is vacant nowadays... Everyone wants to shoot outside... I guess I'm old school and like guys like Shaq, Elton Brand, Tim Duncan, Olajuwon, Mourning, Mason and Mutombo... Notice only Duncan and Brand are younger than 28yrs old... What I'm saying is that the game is changing and you have to change with it... Big men that are 7'5 don't come around that often, especially with the talent he seems to have... sorry but my opinion on why Cat(Mobley) wants Odom is so that he doesn't have to pass(ever again) with Francis and Odom doing all the passing... Cat won't pass even if he's triple covered... Just my opinion..
I'd like to elaborate on the "backed down by Christofferson" part. I read Yao's words on the Chicago workout, here is the context. After a 14-hour flight, Yao had arrived Chicago at night and then got briefed about the schedule. Went to bed at 12:00 pm, then woke up at 4:00 am because of time difference, couldn't sleep any more and was greeted the next day by a oaf like Christofferson at 7-2 and 300 lbs. The point is, it was not a fair duel. I post this in another thread. Mengke Bateer, a 6-11, 290 lbs Chinese center currently playing for the Nuggets, is backing down NBA players and commending double teams. Yao played against Bateer in the CBA and I've seen their matchup in a game. Yao could hold his position against Bateer, which means he is actually stronger than some NBA centers. Even if Yao stops putting on weight, he can still play in the NBA. The concern of Yao Ming's upper body strength is valid, however, the upper body strength is not a condition, but a plus to Yao's game in the NBA.
If you guys want a big man that can shoot, we have one riding the pine in Collier. I realize that Ming is better but I maintain that I don't want him, so I guess we'll have to agree to disagree. It is my opinion that a guy like Hilario or even Ely to a certain extent would serve us better. Guys there is only 1 ball and we all know that Steve and Cat are going to take a lot of shots, Griffin needs to develop, Taylor is back, Rice will most likely be here unless we package him with the Ming pick, China wants Ming to be a star (=score lots), etc. I would rather have a guy that is going to punish the opponent and wear them down over the course of the game without looking for the ball. Will Ming and his people be content to be the 4th option (maybe 5th)? The guy seems a bit cocky after reading his diary (I'm better than so and so, etc.). I think that our O is set, we need guys that will protect our finesse players. I also think that this is such a deep draft that the #8 could produce a star just as easily as the #1 and getting a proven commodity (you have to atleast give me the fact that Odom is more proven than Ming if I am to respect your opinion) just makes more sense. I go back to last year and remember how everybody gave such props to LA and Atl for adding a vet rather than another unproven rook and how the 3 for 1 trade has worked out for NJ, do none of you remember that?
Tiburon- 1st- How many projects do you want? 2nd-Why role the dice when you can get a sure thing and increase your odds of getting something of value (as in get Odom and two early pix) 3rd-Who else besides Cat was going to score for us last year? 4th-What good is it being 7'5'' if you stand outside where Mo Taylor at 6'9'' gets wide open looks?
This is the NBA draft. It's all about potential, not proven players. The Spurs I'm sure got tons of calls about Tim Duncan when he was in the draft. They could have settled on some of those trades, to play it safe. I mean, no one knew that Tim Duncan was going to be THAT good THAT soon. It's easy to say it in hindsight, but at the time, it was unknown how he would do in the NBA. All people knew about him was: 1. He had talent. 2. He had skills. 3. He was 7 feet tall. Now, if you look at the list above, Ming has all of that, too. On top of that, Ming has won a championship in a professional league, albeit not the best league, but he still knows what it takes to get to the top at the level he's played at. Tim Duncan did not even get past the elite eight in the NCAA tournament. Yet, he was drafted #1 and there was no question. I think that, unfortunately, for most people who are against drafting Ming for basketball reasons, it is that they can't see someone Asian excelling in the NBA. Remember, that's what they said about Ichiro, even though he was one of the best baseball players in Japan. Then, he came over here and won MVP. Ming's got all the ingredients for greatness. The Rockets cannot afford to pass on that type of potential. This is a once in 20 years kind of guy as far as potential is concerned. And, remember, the NBA draft is about POTENTIAL. All you can do is take the guy with the most, and hope that he lives up to it. I think Ming has a good chance of doing it. Now, if we can just get over the hurdles of the Chinese system and get him over here... And, then, hopefully they'll leave him and us alone and just let him play ball.
DOESN'T matter!!! RT and CD ARE convinced he's "the one" so that's that.....So RELAX, grab a brewsky, it'll all be over soon!
