I have tried my best to be the right fringe freak fanatic here so back off. Anyway addressing views on Christian, Jesus, and America (BTW-God is not an American either) I think a good example of a Christian (from the Bible) would be the Apostle Paul, if anyone wants to see how it is supposed to be lived out read about it in the Book of Acts (in addition to Paul's letters). Jesus set the perfect example but it is nice to see how a Christian (Paul) followed through. As far as the politics of Christianity- that is an oxymoron As far as Republicans and Democrats and Jesus- A rich politician came to Jesus and asked how to inherit eternal life? Jesus' answer, go and sell all you have and give it to the poor; then follow me. (Luke 18:18) I have a good friend who graduated from the Air Force Acadamy 2 years ago. There are several Christian ministries working actively on the campus. One of them is called Youth With A Mission. My wife and I graduated from a Youth With A Mission missionary training school 19 yrs ago and spent a short time as missionaries. Missionaries try to convert people to the Christian faith (ie. the term missionary) the method is sharing Bible verses, explaining the Christian faith, preaching and serving basic humanitarian needs (extending Christian love to others). "Spreading the message" gospel or good news is central to the Christian faith. Jesus last command to followers was to go into all the world and preach the good news. It is my understanding it was to be accomplished with the same Spirit, love and methods that Jesus, Paul and Peter demonstrated in the Bible.
The republicans have won the presidency twice and taken over both houses of congress by convincing the nation that they are the party of christianity and of partirotism. This is just business as usual, and until the rest of the nation recognizes the BS is this sales pitch or the Democrates figure out how to attack this notion the republicans will continue to succeed.
Has everybody read God’s Politics: Why the Right Gets it Wrong and the Left Doesn’t Get It, by Jim Wallis. He speaks to all of these issues and he gets a lot of things right IMO. He’s a new favourite Christian of mine.
Yes, Jesus would sit down with a homosexual and express his love for him/her. I don't see much love coming out of right wing.
And that’s why the right gets it wrong. Too many of them try to live by the law and not by love. It can be a challenge for some of us on the left too, admittedly. When we start to get frustrated and angry with the injustice that we see the love drains away from us too, and we can end up sounding not that different in tone from those we are trying to oppose. And there is the key slip. We should not be opposing people, only actions and opinions. Better yet, we should focus on speaking to and living what we believe, what we’re for. Speaking of Paul, his letter to the Romans speaks to this very issue: Romans 2 God's Righteous Judgment 1You, therefore, have no excuse, you who pass judgment on someone else, for at whatever point you judge the other, you are condemning yourself, because you who pass judgment do the same things. 2Now we know that God's judgment against those who do such things is based on truth. 3So when you, a mere man, pass judgment on them and yet do the same things, do you think you will escape God's judgment? 4Or do you show contempt for the riches of his kindness, tolerance and patience, not realizing that God's kindness leads you toward repentance? It’s important for those of us on the left to remember that this applies to us too, but quite frankly sometimes this can be very hard to do.
So Jesus would condemn homosexuality even if it is genetic? Or is that just a flaming demon that needs to be exorcised?
Grizzled, well put. I don't really consider myself a christian because most of those that I see as christians are not people I can identify with. (rhester, you are very refreshing!). The basic principals of christianity are wonderful ideals that I rarely see in practice. Since Jesus felt wealth was unnecessary, the idea of organized mega-churches such Second Baptist seems so conflicted for me. It pains me in multiple ways, as a Rox fan , to see the Summit converted into a church. I still cringe when I drive by. Rather than focusing on helping the homeless and underpriviliaged, we are backing this administration as Halliburton pulls in record profits...unchecked while thousands upon thousands are murdered overseas every day. Rather than focusing on helping and loving the poor and removing the conditions that spawns hopelessness, we are chastising abortion and decreasing the tax burden on the wealthy. (ie...if we eliminate poverty and increase education, abortion will dramatically decrease. Not to start another firestorm on abortion, I'm just saying...I don't see much love.) It just all seems very backwards to me.
really, why is this a big deal, as franchiseblade would say in defense of dick durbin (given current circumstances, isn't his name redundnat?)? everything he said is accurate. democrats actively campaigned against, and constantly demonize the religious right, and many on the religious right are christian, so herr hostetler was just speaking truth to those who filibuster power...
I saw Rev. Jim Wallis speak at on C-Span not too long ago.. he blew me away.. I am going to go get his book ASAP..
really, why is this a big deal, as franchiseblade would say in defense of dick durbin (given current circumstances, isn't his name redundnat?)? everything he said is accurate. democrats actively campaigned against, and constantly demonize the religious right, and many on the religious right are christian, so herr hostetler was just speaking truth to those who filibuster power... Except there's a logic flaw here. Just because the religious right are Christian doesn't mean that Christians are the religious right. Democrats are definitely anti-Religious-Right, but that doesn't make them anti-Christian. These are two very separate things.
Speaking the truth?! give me a f***ing break. He's the one demonizing the opposition or did you not read the article. Christians belong to many different political parties. Everything he said was accurate to you and only you . I guess you will forgive about anything as long as it fits your agenda. Sad.
Krosfyah- mistaken identity- just ask my wife if you want the truth... What would Jesus do? What did Jesus do? What does Jesus teach and command? I would like to point out to myself that loving the poor is an appropriate Christian response to the world we live in. Christians don't need big buildings. Jesus taught wealth should be used wisely for God's Kingdom. Lay up treasures in heaven not on earth. As far as understanding Jesus love and judgment... now that is complex yet really very simple. Easy to misunderstand, but clear. Does God love the world, yes. Does Jesus love the bigot, the KKK, the Nazi, the used car salesman, the Satanist, the child molester, the homosexual, the preachers, the Hindu, the terrorists, the IRS agent, the President, the right wing militia fanatic, the little children, the racist, the average American church goer, the communist, the social democrat, the republican, the hypocrites, the liar, the thief and the murderer? Would he sit down and love the street drunk, the prostitute and the pimp? Would he sit down and love the child molester, the arrogant cult leader and the Enron crooks? Is their anyone Jesus would not sit down with and love? Before anyone answers these questions it would be wise to read through the four Gospels Matthew, Mark, Luke and John; maybe several times. Jesus is someone worth investigating.
Love is the operative word. Democrats spend too much time trying to be politically correct and not hurt anybody's feelings that they end up having no voice at all. Republicans spend too much time trying to extract the concept of "moral values" down to their simplest form...thereby complicating the whole subject by alienating anybody that doesn't agree. Both sides have lost LOVE. We currently have a war on terror, war on drugs, war on this and war on that... Both sides have waged a War on Love. So much hate is spewed from both sides.
Jim Wallis is very worth listening to. He’s a voice you may not have heard much from but there are also others of us who have much more in common with him that in what you see in the stereotypical image of the Christian Right. Also note that the Christian Right tends to get characterized by a smaller group of individuals than you may think. They’re not all as bad as they seem, in other words. We all have our flaws, and some of theirs are genuinely innocent. But, if you’re exploring the Christian faith for the first time I would strongly urge you to find a group that you can respect and feel comfortable with. I’m not saying that you should find a group that doesn’t challenge you to think and feel, mind you, just one that resonates with you as essentially true and just, keeping in mind that no church, just like no person, is perfect. Here’s a bit of Jim Wallis from a Frontline interview. He’s an evangelical but he’s an evangelical in the true sense of the word, which is not what is typically thought of when one hears the term today: Let's talk about the last 30 years and the shift that began to happen in America's evangelical community. Well, our magazine Sojourner started in 1971. We were evangelical seminary students at the time. To be an evangelical and to be fighting poverty or to be standing against racism or be opposed to the war in Vietnam was like a voice crying out in the wilderness way back then. But now, all that's changed remarkably. Now the word "evangelical" is a good word, although it's got lots of baggage and people have all these images and fears. I understand all that, what people think it means, but the word harkens back to a wonderful biblical word, the "evangel," which means the good news. So it's supposed to be good news. The fact that evangelicals aren't often thought to be good news is part of the present problem, you see. But good news -- what kind of good news? Jesus, in his first sermon -- his Nazareth manifesto, you might say -- said, "The spirit of the Lord is upon me, because he has anointed me to preach good news to the poor." Good news to the poor. To be evangelical means to preach and live and act in a way that is good news to poor people. I would say that if our gospel isn't good news to poor people, it isn't an evangelical gospel. That's what I believe. I think that's right in the heart of the true evangelical tradition, and of course, 18th-century Britain, John Wesley and Methodism. … In traveling across the country, what I found is a wide range of thought when it comes to being evangelical. But I have met a lot of very conservative Republican evangelicals. Why is there a large population of evangelicals who are Republican and do support more conservative economic policies? Well, it's difficult to understand how we [evangelicals] can be biblical in our politics, which an evangelical wants to be, and not care anything for the poor, or not talk about poverty all the time. This is the primary social issue in the Bible -- what God says about those who are left out and left behind, whom Jesus calls "the least of these." Jesus says, "I was hungry. I was thirsty. I was naked. I was a stranger. I was sick. I was in prison. You didn't come to me. You didn't feed me. You didn't clothe me." And the people said, "Lord, when did we see you hungry and thirsty and naked and a stranger and sick and in prison?" He says, "As you've done to the least of these, you've done to me." That's Matthew 25 [verses 42-45]. That was my conversion passage. … http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/shows/jesus/interviews/wallis.html Here’s another passage from his book: It is also often said that fundamentalism comes from taking religion too seriously. The answer, then, is to take religion less seriously Wrong again. The best response to fundamentalism is to take faith more seriously than fundamentalism usually does. The best critique of fundamentalism comes from faith itself which challenges the accommodations of fundamentalism to theocracy, power, and violence. It is faith that leads us to assert the vital religious commitments that fundamentalists often leave out, namely compassion, social justice, peacemaking, humility, tolerance, and even democracy as a religious commitment. In other words “fundamentalism” all too often isn’t fundamentalism. This has been abundantly clear for a long time but it’s until recently there have been very few voices pointing it out. Jim Wallis is one who is.
Democrats tend not to call them wars since their causes have positive underlying justifications (ie..to help people). War on racism War on sexism War on AIDS (and War OF gay rights) Republican wars tend to be waged against things with negative underlying justifications (ie...to squash bad things) War on drugs War on terrorism War on alcohol (didn't call it that though) etc.
i'm teaching a lesson on Zacchaeus this week to the high schoolers at my church..you just gave me some material!!!
