Ok, assume that we get T-Mac, and it's essentially for SF, maybe with a couple fo picks. I know it's unlikely that we'd retain Mobley, etc. in that move, but assume T-Mac lets it be known that he wants ro come here, etc. and they opt for Francis value. Ok, since we're dreaming, here are some moves I would consider for secondary players to fill roles. What we won't need are go to scorers. What we will need are system/opportunity scorers, outside shooters, defenders, ball control guys, and character players. 1) Mobley, Cato to Toronto for Donyell Marshall, Alvin Williams, Morris Peterson, future 1st, likely lottery protected. This deal would be contingent on Williams' health. If so, on paper, it gives us a gain of +9.9 ppg, +4.4 rpg, and +2.7 apg. It also fills several roles: A low shot ball control point to go with T-Mac, though AW's knees would make it preferable to have another guy to share the load, a perfect 4, IMO, alongside Yao( a guy who's basically a double double every night, within the flow of the offense, and can hit inside or outside) and an outside shooter/defender who excels on the break. 2) Cato, Mobley to Indiana for Al Harrington, Austin Croshere, Kenny Anderson. This one is more of a gamble, IMO, but Harrington could pay off big. Croshere gives us a shooter, Harrington is a young stud at the 4 who may or may not develop into a great compliment to Yao, and Anderson gives us a veteran point to mix with another pickup. On paper we gain +2.4 ppg, +0.1 rpg, and +1.0 apg. 3) Kelvin Cato, Cuttino Mobley to New Orleans for P.J. Brown, David Wesley, Stacey Augmon, future 1st. Gives us a real sold 4, a decent backcourt mate for T-Mac, and a defender off the bench. Not as ideal as no. 1, not the upisde of no. 2, but adding very nice role players who fit. On paper, we're +8.2 ppg, +2.0 rpg, and +1.8 apg. Just some ideas. I have nothing against Mobley or Cato, as it would appear, but feel that Cato's lack of a J kills us with people able to double Yao at will, and Mobley's primary assets would be made redundant were we to get T-Mac. Thoughts?
I like the trade with Indiana because it's almost exactly what I've proposed recently. I don't take credit; I was pointing out to others on the board, See? Croshere can still play. He's just on a team that leaves him stranded on the depth chart. That trade also makes sense because it relieves the Indiana logjam at the forward spots and provides us needed size. JVG even mentioned how we need that, after starting the season saying that for him, the 2 and the 3 were usually interchangeable (maybe that's how he had to have it with Spree and Houston on the Knicks?) It gives us a funky lineup, in a way, but you could also look to Seattle and Rashard Lewis, with Harrington as the bait.
PJ brown is gettin up there in age. But he's still servicable for couple years. The plastic man is also up there in age. Harrington is nice, but I wish he had more range. He's more of a slasher though. I don't think the pacers would want to part with harrington. Maybe Croshere, but he's got a sizable contract. The Toronto Trade helps out our bench moreso than anything and I would like to have more depth than to have any more great starters. The toronto trade is the most benficial
i would consider #1. although AW isnt a "true" PG, he is a good defender and a nice shooter. marshall is the PERFECT fit for us. he should be our target for the offseason IMO. after that trade we would need a back-up center: yao marsh-moT-spoon jj-boki-ag cat-moP-pike steve-AW #2 is pretty good too. the shooting we lose by trading cat for al is replaced with cato for cro. anderson would just be the iceing. the only thing i dont like about starting al as our 4 is that our defence really relies on having 2 shot blockers out there. if we go with: yao cato-cro-spoon al-boki-ag jj-pike steve-kenny it helps but we are still a little small. maybe we can throw in the TE for pollard? as for #3...no way! lol that one is pretty bad
We already endured 5 seasons with a 2 playing the point, and as much as I like Alvin Williams, we all know the only reason he ran the point in Toronoto was because he was the best (at times, the only) option available. I love Donyell Marshall, but his play has a tendency to drop off midway through the season, and I don't know if he has enough bulk to survive in the west as a full-time 4. I don't know where Mo Pete fits in with JJ and T-Mac around. I love Al Harrington, but for the past two years he hasn't shown up in the playoffs and really isn't a great rebounder. He is a great defender though, close to Artest's level. Croshere, in my opinion, really isn't a huge upgrade over Padgett, and doesn't provide enough bang for the buck when you look at his contract. I think Kenny Anderson's washed up. For all his talent, he's had a disappointing career. Don't think the trade with NO's should even be considered. They'll be division rivals next year, and all those players are in their early- to mid-30's. Love PJ Brown, but I don't think he has more than one or two seasons left. I'm just inclined to think that Cat and Cato are better fits than any of those guys. Some intruiging ideas though.
oooops....i forgot we are talking about what would happen if we got tmac. ok forget my last post but even if we dont get tmac i like the pacer deal.
I would LOVE to get D. Marshall. I'd prefer to do it just for Cato, and pass on the other players involved. If Toronto gets Cato, they can slide Bosh to 4 and Rose to 3 and VC to 2. They can keep AW at the point, and pick up some help. It's all good. Cato's contract is bigger than Marshall's so Toronto gets to throw in whatever. Palacio works. Harrington used to intrigue me, but now I'm leery. He is Cuttino-esqe in his mental lapses. I don't need that at the end of a close game. I don't need that next to Yao. I don't think he's going to grow out of it - do people really change? That's a question for the ages, but I'm going to say no, not in the nba. Players are who they are by the third year. Come on, Yao! Make or break time. Hey, Houston management! Re-read that last sentance! Make or break time! Make Yao the focus, dump that cancer francis. You are going to get what you set up to happen - you're going to get it stamped on his forehead for a long time. Better set him up for success.
Id really only consider the Indiana trade. Kenny Anderson is a FA I believe. Maybe we could have pollard with the TE. He proved to be a higly valuable backup with Sacramento and I woulnt gamble on yao playing more then 35 minutes next year, so a quality backup would be needed. Alvin Williams does have a rather horrible contract. And it seems we would be losing 2 valuable role players while only getting one in return in Donyell Marshall. Everyone listed in the NO trade is rather long in the tooth. Im not sure but I think wesley is already 30 years old and combine that with PJ brown we only have maybe 2 or 3 good years left in them while Cat and Cato are relatively young.
I think Harrington and Croshere at the two forward spots would be a great compliment to Yao and Mcgrady. Croshere will make teams respect his outside shooting. Harrington would be a great 3rd star. He’s a high energy type of player that is very active and doesn’t necessarily need the ball a lot to contribute.
Sounds good. My favorite picks....Marshall, Alvin Williams, Harrington, Peterson, Croshere, P.J. and Wesley (this guy has ice in his veins). All good players.
1) The first trade might be a good one. Marshall is maybe the most underrated player of the league. Though Alvin Williams' injuries are a problem. Mo Pete would have to step up to be an upgrade. 2) Horrible trade. Kenny Anderson is basically done. Austin Croshere is overpaid and soft as hell and Al Harrington has yet to step up when it counts. 3) Another horrible trade. How old is PJ Brown and how much money does he make? David Wesley isn't a shooting guard, but he isn't a very good pg either. The plastic man is getting older. Because of our hole at the 3 he could be a factor. But compared to other teams he wouldn't be an upgrade.
Well, this is all assuming that we wouldn't have to give up Cato or Cat for T-Mac, which I assume we would have to. But Beth, I honestly think you are thinking too highly of Cat's and Cato's trade value. Cato is a servicable big-man, he doesn't do much more than an average big guy. Even though his contract is pretty standard for a C, it is still a lot of $$ to put on someones roster. Cat is nothing special to other teams. There are many molds of Cat in the league and a lot of younger molds too. He is on a cheap contract, which makes it better. Trade#1: I like it, but we sure do get a lot of players in return. We would probably have to sweeten the deal somehow, Pike or Griffin. I think Toronto could get a better deal for the players and the 1st they give up. Trade #2: I was pushing for this trade last summer, it seems pretty good. They get a SG to replace Miller, Cato would allow JO to play PF full-time. However, Harrington has high trade value, he's young and does a lot of things well. Harrington's name has been mentioned in trades for Allen, T-Mac, Chicago's #3, and other big names. I doubt Cat/Cato would be enough. Trade #3: Kinda iffy on this one, all 3 guys in return are pretty old. I like PJ and Wesley a lot, not sure how much Augmon contributes anymore, but I like the 1st. I'd still like to keep Cato as a backup for Yao.
I like the idea of Cato to TOR for Mashall, and Mobely to IND for Harrington ... if we've already got McGrady. That would mean getting McGrady without giving up Mobely, which sounds good to me, bit I'd prefer we didn't have to pick up Hill's contract to do it.
