Coach K vs Pop

So... the Spurs having to deal with OKC and (half broken down) Miami is harder than a college team having to keep everyone academically eligible, be on of the top elite teams out of 100 good teams, and then overcome the Kansas, Michigan State, Syracuse and Arizona's (or take your pick) of the land?

I just don't see it. Yes, OKC and Miami are better than college teams. But this is about being the best orange out of 30 oranges, or the best apple out of 120 or so apples. Statistically, I just don't agree with you.

The NBA drafts, trades, and signs, and you have to be the best manager out of 30 teams to get the best talent. College teams recruit and you have fierce often illegal competition 24/7 from at least 50 top flight teams. It's non-linear because you're talking to 17-yr-old boys (who may or may not ever set foot in an NCAA game after all your work).

 

They are both fine coaches, but I don't see USA's teams(which have a clear advantage over 90% of their competitors) or Duke's teams(which also have a clear advantage on most nights in the areas of size, athleticism, and are often the nation's very best high school prospects ) as an appropriate comparison to Pop's 5 titles(and countless deep playoff teams) in the most competitive basketball league in the world. I'm pretty sure the Spurs weren't the favorite to win in any of those years - not at the start of the season, or the start of the playoffs. That's coaching.

Coach K would be a great NBA coach too - but his 4 college titles and handful of FIBA titles/gold medals are not as impressive as Pop's 5 titles in a league where big city teams have a clear advantage over small markets(although increasingly less so with each new CBA).

 

Coach K has to go pro before you can compare the two. You can't go by what he does on team USA when he's coaching All-Stars and he's got NBA head coaches as assistants.

 

Yeah, I voted Milkhair. He is undefeated head-to-head against Coach K also.

 

Very hard to compare for a few simple reasons.

1) Coach K has complete power over the players. He doesn't have to deal with players that can bolt in Free Agency or demand a trade. He doesn't have to manage millionaire ego's and can sit anyone he wishes without regard to player feelings. Players on a college team who are gone in a year or two don't have the clout to have a Head Coach removed in college. College players are put in the position of "do what he says" or risk having Coach K bench you and decrease your chances of being drafted to the NBA to near zero.

2) Coach K doesn't have a limited talent pool. Pops has to deal with salary restrictions on an individual or team basis. Coach K can go to the top 10 players every season and recruit any and all of them. Pops and Co. have to manage their dollars, and are lucky to get a handful of top players let alone a roster full of top players.

3) The level of coaching in the NBA is higher than the level of coaching at the college level on average. Sure, there are a few top end coaches in the various conferences, but it's not like the NBA where you're dealing with an entire coaching staff on EVERY team with multiple coaches that could easily walk onto a D1 team and get a head coaching position.

4) College players are younger and less mature than professional players. They're more malleable, more easy to influence, and more easy to impress than NBA veterans. Additionally, college players don't have the deep pockets of NBA professionals who have the money to afford top tier consultants, lawyers and accountants who are in their ear and can spell out the financial and brand implications of every organizational and coaching decision.

Different animals.

Maybe Coach K. would be a good NBA coach, however we'll never know until he goes to the NBA and has to deal with NBA players (who hold ALL the cards in the NBA).

Until then, I'll take Pops over Coach K. in the NBA hands down. In College? Maybe Coach K would be as good or better than Pops. However, I suspect Pops skill set would completely translate to College, whereas we can't be sure that Coach K. would have those skills that are unique to being a successful NBA coach.

 

Lulz. Coach K is supposed to get props for winning FIBA with the best players in the world by far? I don't think so, man.

 

In terms of Xs & Os? It is Pop easily. Coach K is great with the media and with recruiting. But in terms of on court basketball coaching Pop wins pretty easily.

 

Most of the guys from Duke have not been great NBA players. I think that actually shows that Coach K is really good coach. Playing team ball can often beat superior talent. Coach K and Pop are both about team ball. Duncan and the Spurs win because they are well coached. Duke wins for the same reason.

They are both great coaches.

I agree winning a college title is harder. March madness is not a process that crowns the best team or the best coached team. 64 teams and a one and done format is a harder process to win. In the NBA playoffs, upsets are less common and you can recover from one bad game.

 

1) College players do bolt. They go to the NBA. Ever hear of Kyrie Irving. He got hurt freshman year and then went pro.

2) Coack K has limited scholarships. He is also competing with other colleges for talent. Frankly, this makes his job harder, not easier. You think it is easy to project high school players? Seems to me, Pops has been pretty lucky to get Duncan and then international players like Manu and Parker. And then they draft a player like Kawhi, finals MVP.

3) Is NBA coaching really better? Doesn't seem to be the last few years. The NBA is more about iso ball, rolling the ball out there and letting NBA athleticism and talent rule. College coaching may in fact be more pure basketball where young players with less talent are actually coachable. NBA players with guaranteed contracts are probably not good students.

4) Your statements here about college players being malleable actually means that coaching is more of a factor in college than the NBA. That means Coach K coaches while Pops simply watches men work.

Recruiting is unique to college. Could Pops recruit? Maybe. You think players with talent would want to play disciplined defense and team ball? Or would they go to Kentucky and then the NBA?

I think they are both great coaches. Hard to compare. And like Phil Jackson, was he a great coach? I don't know, but I think plenty of coaches could win with Michael Jordan or Kobe and Shaq. So the true measure of a good coach seems to me is the coach who wins with less talent. And once coaches have a reputation for being good, they often attract better talent, which makes it a self fulfilling prophecy of them being a good coach (this more so for Jackson I think than Coach K and Pops who make the teams better than the individual talent, the sum is greater than parts for Coach K and Pops).

 

Also, keep in mind, I don't think Coach K can or does recruit the best talent. Duke is a highly selective school. Kids with bad grades or test scores may not be able to get into Duke or stay eligible. This is another challenge for college coaches that NBA coaches don't have. No NBA player ever became ineligible for being dumb or not doing his homework. A college coach is more of a mentor and parent to the kids. And I think the good college coach also cares about his players having life skills who may never be able to play in the NBA.

 

I'm going contrarian to all the NBA fans here and saying coach K is a better coach. Pops is great too, but if you back me into a corner and say choose one, I'm going to go to war with the guy from West Point over the one from the Air Force Academy. But they are both great.

 

1. Players bolting to the NBA is expected and part of the process. College teams don't expect top players to stay more than 1 or 2 years. This is different than the NBA where teams are expected to retain players for 3, 5 or 10 years. In other words, not managing ego's can result in the loss of superstar talent. That requires a different approach to college players who will bolt if they can go to the NBA, but otherwise stay and are under the influence of the coach.

2. D1 teams have 13 scholarships. That's basically 2 full units of players plus change. There is NO comparison between being free to offer 13 scholarships and a salary cap in terms of limitation of resources.

3. Yes, on average. When you look at the resume of NBA head coach + assistant coach staffs combined, they are deeper, more accomplished and more experienced than college staffs. You are far, far more likely to see a college Head coach working as an assistant NBA coach than the other way around. And let's be fair, the level of superstar talent has a tremendous influence in terms of how they design offenses around the superstars. If Coach K had a 29 year old Lebron, he'd do a completely different offense as well.

4. Malleable means they're more susceptible to coaching, but it also means they're less likely to fight with their coach. They're less likely to lead a player revolt. They're less likely to ignore the coach completely and pout on the sidelines. They're less likely to go to the administration and demand that they be fired. And that they're less likely to know any better when the coach is incompetent. And it is FAR more difficult to effectively coach someone who is set in their ways than someone who is "malleable" and also subject to your power and decision making.

As for recruiting, that's obviously something specific to College, however having read about how Popovich interacts with his players and family, I don't think he'd have too much problem. Especially given the level of respect he currently has in the basketball world.

Let's put it this way, if Pops decided to coach a D1 team, do you really think he'd have a tough time convincing top flight players to join his team?

Either way, if you think Coach K is better, that's fine. I just think that Pops is more of a sure bet in terms of successfully coaching at BOTH levels. I'm sure Coach K is great in College, however I have no idea how well he'd do at the NBA level with all the differences in the balance of power when you're coaching multimillionaire Grown Men vs boys on scholarships.

 

Woj absolutely blasted Team USA using pros in the for the Word Cup as nothing more than photo ops for Coach K to use in recruiting and giving him unparalleled access to top high school players. All this comes at the potential expense of players like Paul George who have everything to lose. Woj

 

Woj is a troll. Pg was a freak accident. Players have gotten hurt washing a car in the driveway. Pg was playing basketball which theoretically is good training for, you know, actually playing basketball.

Also, pg just signed a big contract and is getting paid. I hope he comes back fine. Pg did not lose everything. Soldiers in Iraq lose everything. Pg represented his country. Woj should shut up.

 

Woj is an idiot. Coach k already has access to college talent. "Idiot." - Napoleon dynamite.

Is Woj a shill for Cuban? Nba owners may not like their "assets" risking injury for their country, but I think harden will be a better player having played this summer, from the competition, practice with other nba greats and coaching.

 

So in the same paragraph you're going to applaud George for "representing his country" you're going to say that he didn't lose everything because he's going to get paid? And make some contrived "them boys in Iraq pay the ULTIMATE PRICE" statement for... What? You're all over the place. Maybe you're the troll.