1. Welcome! Please take a few seconds to create your free account to post threads, make some friends, remove a few ads while surfing and much more. ClutchFans has been bringing fans together to talk Houston Sports since 1996. Join us!

[ClutchFans] The numbers are clear: Patrick Beverley deserves to start over Jeremy Lin

Discussion in 'Houston Rockets: Game Action & Roster Moves' started by Clutch, Jan 21, 2014.

  1. tinman

    tinman Contributing Member
    Supporting Member

    Joined:
    May 9, 1999
    Messages:
    98,032
    Likes Received:
    40,640
    Ginobli, Sam Cassell, Harden,

    those are a few players that came off the bench to help teams go far in the playoffs

    So hopefully we can add Lin to it.
     
  2. RedEyesKirby

    RedEyesKirby Member

    Joined:
    Oct 30, 2012
    Messages:
    1,025
    Likes Received:
    67
    Agree with the data that Bev should start and Lin should come off as the 6th man. But disagree with the premise that Bev deserves to start over Lin. I'm guessing you used the wrong world "deserve" in this situation.

    However, I do believe there is a fallacy in this argument to Bev starting over Lin starting. If Lin had trained with the core group and Bev trained with the bench from the beginning of the season. I don't think the data would have been the same. We also have to consider the fact that Lin played as an main attacker SG on the bench and had to switch his role during the month. All other starters also had to compromise to his role and there is the attribute of chemistry here.

    So in conclusive, for the Rockets to perform better, Bev should start. But I do not believe the argument that he fits better is solely because of his skillsets compromising the other but because they've developed chemistry and roles with each other. And the reason Lin was worst off with the comparison was because of the sudden change in roles with the entire starting unit including Lin himself when he was inserted back to starting.
     
  3. Flippin

    Flippin Member

    Joined:
    Jan 17, 2014
    Messages:
    48
    Likes Received:
    2
    Everything you said about Beverley is true, the only thing I dislike is your assertion about the the Rockets making a buck off Lin: "but the team makes wayyy more than 8mil a year off of Lin."

    You have proof of that?
     
  4. ccrystal99

    ccrystal99 Member

    Joined:
    Mar 27, 2013
    Messages:
    317
    Likes Received:
    7
    If it is a true 6th man, I am fine, but it did not seem that that he is supported as a 6th man by the team.
     
  5. Rockets2K

    Rockets2K Clutch Crew

    Joined:
    Mar 22, 2000
    Messages:
    18,050
    Likes Received:
    1,270
    HE has never been treated unfairly, and until you realize that, you will forever be on the outside of reality.

    He was brought in to be the main guy, then they got someone better(Harden).

    Then they got another big main guy (Dwight)

    Then, the roster dictated Lin would be better served by running with the bench unit, which the numbers show he does play better with the bench.

    Nothing unfair about any of that, it happens every year on every NBA team.
     
    1 person likes this.
  6. shastarocket

    shastarocket Contributing Member

    Joined:
    Jul 18, 2006
    Messages:
    13,773
    Likes Received:
    1,082
    What goes unmentioned is that McHale made a smart coaching move! He knew beforehand that Bev would be a better fit for the starting lineup and never really wavered from that stance.

    He may be an "etch-a-sketch" coach, but you can't deny his understanding of the game.
     
  7. PooleBoi7

    PooleBoi7 Member

    Joined:
    Feb 29, 2012
    Messages:
    280
    Likes Received:
    116
    Unbiased opinion (don't care either)....

    But screw the stats....A: the sample size is way too small to make any determinations, and B: all of these stats heavily depend on whom our opponents were (different defenses, offenses, superior teams, inferior teams, Rox clicking on all cylinders some days, other days we suck etc etc) . All of the factors that went into these stats are way too volatile to make a determination for "who should be the starter". That said...

    I like Bev. I like the dudes chippiness and the way he plays with a chip on shoulder, and I enjoy his defensive intensity. Yes he should be the starter, but not because of these weak stats....but because the dude simply balances out the offense. Think about it....of course PBev's play is gonna shine with the starters because he's expected to neutralize the starting point guard on the opposite team. Our defense has been lackluster at best this entire season with our starters, and great O starts with solid D. PBev provides that defensive spark, which in a lot of ways ends up positively affecting our O (turnovers, fast breaks, etc). Statistically, PBevs offensive numbers are actually lower than JLins per possession besides 3PM and that's with them both averaging the same playing time. PBevs defensive numbers are way higher though leading Lin in Rebs, Steals, and TOVs per possession (leads to more O for the team).

    As for Lin, I hope he stays with us. He brings a different dynamic to the team. Heavily inconsistent play from a PG standpoint, but his scoring for the most part has been steady throughout the season. When JLin is on the floor with the second stringers, somehow the offense has just clicked better than it has without him in there. Then too, marketing has a lot to do with it. Yes, he's getting paid 8mil per season, but the team makes wayyy more than 8mil a year off of Lin. That's like a drop in a bucket in comparison. We've had higher ticket sales, and Lin is maintained a good grip on the Asian culture in Hou. If I'm an owner or GM, that revenue stream would not be something I'd want to give up unless the benefit of the alternative outweighed the cost and unless we get a third star for Lin, it ain't happening peeps. In all, Lin ain't the best, but he's a heck of a lot better than a bunch of 1st string and 2nd string PGs in the league. He provides a good balance between play and marketing for us.

    Point is, everybody sucks some games, and everybody beasts certain games. When you do suck, that's why you have teammates to pick up the slack to get the win. Clutch, the foundation of your stats are good boss. I appreciate the effort, but the next time you run some stats, let me know. I'll be more than happy to crunch some numbers for you.
     
  8. DarkRock

    DarkRock Rookie

    Joined:
    Nov 8, 2013
    Messages:
    990
    Likes Received:
    10
    Why all the Lin fanatical fans feel the need to be his "unofficial" agent when Lin himself has not personally express his displeasure towards the Coach or the Rockets organisation.

    Had Lin said, "The coach doesn't like me!" or "The Rockets wants to get rid of me!" I could understand. Lin had said nothing. Maybe he is too good a person to say anything but if you are truly his fan you should do him proud and STFU as well. If Lin wasn't happy and he wants to go somewhere else you just need to wait.

    Lin is playing for $8m a year with a major role in one of the top NBA teams. What the fk more do you want?
     
  9. DunKingDanny

    DunKingDanny Contributing Member

    Joined:
    Jul 23, 2008
    Messages:
    344
    Likes Received:
    94
    Great article Clutch.

    Hopefully this will stop the Lin trolling at least for a while :)

    But who am I kidding?? It probably never will...:( lol
     
  10. PooleBoi7

    PooleBoi7 Member

    Joined:
    Feb 29, 2012
    Messages:
    280
    Likes Received:
    116
    Les Alexander is my cousin....and I'm black. :confused: All jokes aside though, that's just an assumption I made. I just notice many more Lin fans at a lot of games and in opponents arenas wearing Rox gear. We get more national TV time....and the dude is high in the all-star ranks....I'm pretty sure a majority of the voters are foreign Lin fans who now are Rox fans. Just an inference though bro...
     
  11. GoRox2013

    GoRox2013 Member

    Joined:
    Mar 29, 2013
    Messages:
    1,981
    Likes Received:
    84
    The thing is if you follow the basketball, and the Rockets, you ALREADY KNEW this since last year. The way Lin weenied out last years playoffs, and how the team responded once Bev became starter, we knew he was the guy over Lin. Why should it take a article from Clutch, a year later, for some of you to see how grossly he's overrated by you guys. Theres nothing in this article that wasn't posted in these 100 page "Should Jeremy Lin start" threads. His fans have been in denial since his Knick days. SMH
     
  12. ZNB

    ZNB Contributing Member

    Joined:
    Feb 10, 2011
    Messages:
    1,571
    Likes Received:
    168
    Actually back then it was more defendable. We signed Lin before knowing we would have Harden or Howard. At the time he was the best player available we could realistically sign.
     
  13. Flippin

    Flippin Member

    Joined:
    Jan 17, 2014
    Messages:
    48
    Likes Received:
    2
    "Agree with the data that Bev should start and Lin should come off as the 6th man. But disagree with the premise that Bev deserves to start over Lin."

    Contradiction is how LOF argues. Look at what you just wrote LOL.
     
  14. larsv8

    larsv8 Contributing Member

    Joined:
    Nov 11, 2007
    Messages:
    21,663
    Likes Received:
    13,914
    He has been treated more than fair.

    He got a huge contract.

    He got to start all of last season.

    He got replaced by a guy who makes the team produce more.

    He got a chance to take the starting spot back, he was not successful.
     
  15. tinman

    tinman Contributing Member
    Supporting Member

    Joined:
    May 9, 1999
    Messages:
    98,032
    Likes Received:
    40,640
    Yes he has.

    Giant pictures of him everywhere at Toyota Center, Volvo car commercials, a very large salary from the Rockets.

    does he deserve that? what's fair?
     
  16. tinman

    tinman Contributing Member
    Supporting Member

    Joined:
    May 9, 1999
    Messages:
    98,032
    Likes Received:
    40,640
    No they need to treat Lin like he's Moses Malone or Hakeem Olajuwon.
     
  17. King1

    King1 Contributing Member

    Joined:
    Feb 19, 2004
    Messages:
    13,275
    Likes Received:
    8,717
    Great article
     
  18. kwongadong

    kwongadong Member

    Joined:
    Nov 29, 2002
    Messages:
    560
    Likes Received:
    18
    14 games is too small of a sample size for Bevsanity.
     
  19. pwnyxpress

    pwnyxpress Contributing Member

    Joined:
    May 1, 2013
    Messages:
    1,730
    Likes Received:
    96
    I had actually meant an argument based purely on Lin's basketball skills. Back then that's a much harder argument to make because most were cautiously optimistic at best about his skills. His signing, I believe, was in large part due to the direction Morey THOUGHT we were going, and hence there were business decisions affecting the signing.
     
  20. RedEyesKirby

    RedEyesKirby Member

    Joined:
    Oct 30, 2012
    Messages:
    1,025
    Likes Received:
    67
    Or you should go find a dictionary and search for the definition between "should" and "deserve". But I'm done with your trolling.
     

Share This Page

  • About ClutchFans

    Since 1996, ClutchFans has been loud and proud covering the Houston Rockets, helping set an industry standard for team fan sites. The forums have been a home for Houston sports fans as well as basketball fanatics around the globe.

  • Support ClutchFans!

    If you find that ClutchFans is a valuable resource for you, please consider becoming a Supporting Member. Supporting Members can upload photos and attachments directly to their posts, customize their user title and more. Gold Supporters see zero ads!


    Upgrade Now