Wasn't his fault that Kevin Brown killed the Astros or that the Killer Bs couldn't hit worth a damn. Fact of the matter is, renting Carmelo is a plausible plan. In fact, if it means getting the maximum return out of Yao for this year (i.e. putting the big man in a position to actually have a shot at a ring), I'm all for it. Yao's window of opportunity coincides with the Rockets' window so you pretty much have to go all-in now. The only discrepancy is trading away too many of our small forwards. I think you either let go of Battier to make the trade work or you let go of Budinger and include other pieces (i.e. Brooks). Sure Carmelo is going to play 35+ a night but having a serviceable small forward is vital since we'd have no one at the 3 if BOTH Battier and Budinger gets shipped out.
It seems to me that in BT's scenario there are three possible outcomes: 1 - Rockets become relevant this year, possibly push deep into play-offs (that at end of October looks way way off...at end of October, that is). New CBA leaves future a great unknown. 2 - Rockets make the deal with enough time that they become the broker of the Melo 'sweeps', taking back a greater package than they gave up. 3 - Melo, the businessman, sees the potential to expand his - and his bride's - brand in Asia.
That Randy Johnson year was exciting... I stayed up all night on the computer hoping for some news on a Roger Clemens deal, and then boom -- up popped that on my screen. Blew me away... he just dominated that year. But back on topic -- "rentals" are so much more common in baseball (Carlos Beltran was the same deal). I wouldn't have been for this since I think the player cost and long-term cost is high and the risk is great (and from what we can gather about Morey is he is low risk, high reward), but Bima makes some good points I hadn't considered enough. What are some good examples of rentals in the NBA -- Bucks-Sonics Gary Payton-Ray Allen trade perhaps?
Rasheed Wallace was a "rental" at the time Detroit acquired him in 2004. THAT turned out pretty well for them.
There you go. Forgot about that one since technically Atlanta acquired him first, at a relatively high cost (Shareef Abdur-Rahim). Detroit didn't give up much of anything if I recall correctly (Sura and a first rounder?). Hawks were just looking for the clean slate and savings. That was the Gasol trade before the Gasol trade.
i don't blame randy for us not making the series, we had a great push for it in 1998 and trading for him helped bolster the pitching staff and solidify us as the best team in baseball that year. so we mortgaged the future on the hopes of us doing something special that year, and the possibility of us resigning him and making more runs at a world series. freddy garcia - 2 time all star, world series win in 05 (against the astros) carlos guillen - 3 time all star john halama - decent left handed journeyman pitcher how is it different this time around? i don't like gutting the team's young talent, AND draft picks for a 2 month rental. as always, i trust morey, and if carmelo were to sign an extension it makes this all a moot point anyway.
Love it when a good Rox conversation turns into a trip down Stros memory lane... :grin: Rasheed was a good rental but there was a decent chance he was going to resign with Detroit, we have a very small chance Melo resigns with us even if we win the title.
He is from NY, his wife wants to be in NY and all this drama is really about being in NY...even if we take the trophy, he will end up in NY.
I'd trade Budinger, Brooks, Hill, Battier, and Jeffries for that ONE title. Melo can go whereever he wants if that championship comes back to Houston even for a year.
No way. Forget Carmelo if he isn't re-signed. Use those assets to go after someone else. Wallace, Granger, Iggy, etc....
One thing about this -- if it's the Knicks or bust for Anthony, the Rockets aren't likely to get first rounders from them considering how depleted they are. You might get a young talent and the large trade exception. That actually made me think of something else -- can the Knicks even trade their 2014 pick? Per the <a href="http://www.clutchfans.net/news/1552/terms_of_rockets-knicks_draft_picks_swap/">protection terms from the trade with the Rockets</a>, that 2012 pick obligation is top-5 protected and rolls over for four years if it hits in the top 5. So how can they trade a 2014 pick if "technically" they could owe that one to the Rockets if the Knicks land in the top 5 in 2012 and 2013?
If we are going to make a playoff push then he is definitely worth giving up Expiring contracts and maybe a pick or two for a mid season rental, but I just do not see this happening. New Jersey wont even consider trading for him without an extension on place so Im sure the Rockets and Morey wouldnt consider it as well. Regardless, this dude just wants to be in New York plain and clear. He's going one way or another even if the Rockets made it to the Western Conference finals... (see Amare'). My take is this. If it is past December and the Rockets record is below or around .500 its time to make major changes with the goal to rebuild without losing your top talent of Yao, Martin, Scola, Lowry, & Patterson. -The goal here IMO is getting young talent that could potentially be a game-changer for the next couple seasons. Top Picks or Star Players are your main goal here. With the lack of stars around the league you might be looking at just a pick or two in the Draft for 2011. The next step is... -Trade Brooks for Picks at the trade deadline or Sign and trade for picks at end of Season. Deadline deal in February would be the target to try and get a pick for 2011. Best case scenario would be to get a talented player to help the team out now, but I do not believe Brooks carries that much weight right now at this point in his career but Morey might be able to work his magic here. -Resign Yao if his foot holds up. His value to this franchise goes beyond his stats and wins. He is an international Icon and his value is in the business model of any smart franchise. If he gets injured again and has to sit out the rest of the season he still should be involved with the franchise in some way. -Go to work on the draft. Morey and his team need to be going all in to stock picks to find something special here. Its always a gamble even for top picks but the only Kevin Durants you will find that Houston will be able to get will be in the draft. Do your homework Morey and find us a gem or two to become stars next to Yao and Martin.
LeBron? Or is 7-years too long for this discussion? Karl Malone to LAL was a rental, along with GP. McG to NY was a rental (but to acquire greater cap space for greater players; you judge that one).
Couldn't the Rockets rework those picks as part of any trade, we give them back those rights for future picks etc? DD
You would be trading those assets for a CHANCE to contend for a title but by no means is it a guaranteed title or even make you the favorite. If we lose him in the offseason and all we get is a 1st rd pick along with a massive T/E, that is great and all but he will probably go to NY with Amar'e which basically gives us their 2014 or 2015 pick and T/E that may not even be used since who, worth that exception, will even become avilable to trade for? Also consider Yao's FAgency and what that will be like with the new CBA is in place and how much money the team will be able to spend in replacing not only Melo and Bud but also Shane. I'd do whatever it took to keep Bud and move other parts around the team.
Great article. So refreshing to see a thread like this with some original thought. Personally, I would do it even if it is only for a rental. I would not include Kevin Martin, though, unless we also get Billups back... I know it will not happen, but my ideal scenario would be this (this, however, only if he agrees to an extension)... I would not include both Knicks draft considerations, just one. Why would Denver do it? Because keeping Billups when you trade Melo seems kind of pointless. They would get younger, have one of the fastest and most exciting backcourts in the league, plus young talent in Hill, Patterson and Taylor, plus one Knicks pick (or maybe our own instead). PG: Billups (32), Lowry (16), Ish SG: Melo (36), Lee (12) SF: Battier (26), Budinger (22) PF: Scola (38), Hayes (10) C: Yao (24), Miller (16), Dampier (8) We would get much older, but we would gain size and toughness and this roster would clearly be built to win now. Just seems to me that Billups and Melo would be a much better fit with Yao, Scola and Battier. Brooks/Martin with Yao/Battier/Scola seems like fire and water at this point in time - all great individually, but haven't figured out how to really play together yet (of course I hope they will...soon).
DD is right. The Rockets and Knicks can always rework those pick obligations. For example, if New York was, in fact, getting Carmelo Anthony in a sign-and-trade with Houston, it could be that the Knicks would be confident in their ability to win in the foreseeable future and would be willing to remove their protection on the 2012 pick completely. Then, the Knicks could give the Rockets swap rights on their 2013 first round pick (which might not amount to anything, if the Knicks have a better regular season record than the Rockets in 2012-13) and their 2014 first round pick outright (possibly lottery-protected, but the Knicks would likely be a playoff team anyway).
I would pull the trigger on a Carmelo rental, because it's nowhere near as dangerous to the future of the team as it seems at first glance. I think we're going to see a lot of max or near-max guys looking for contract extensions before the end of THIS year. If Stern is serious about dropping the salary structure by 1/3, some pretty serious lowering of the max contract amount is in order. What is the players union going to bargain for, to leave the max the same and lower the rookie scale even further? That won't fly. With that in mind, Carmelo, CP3, and any other top-tier guys are going to want to re-up this year for the CURRENT max. If we were to rent Carmelo for the year, that is something we could give him that nobody else could -- except via S&T, in which case our asse(t)s are protected since we'd get back something pretty valuable in return if he refuses to stay here. He is DEFINITELY not going to wait until the season is over and just walk away, because he'd be taking a HUGE pay cut. If Carmelo walks, it'll be via S&T, in which case we still get compensation of roughly the same quality as what we original traded away for him.
No your ORIGINAL statement said: So I went with the assumption that you think it's not wise to rent Melo EVEN IF WE TAKE THE TROPHY because he'll bolt for NY anyways. So that means we win it all for one season right? If that's the case, then yes I would still do the trade even if it meant mortgaging our future just for one more championship.
