[ClutchFans] Keep an eye on Deron Williams, because the Rockets sure will

I wouln't want to stifle your creativity. I think we do need to upgrade the 4, as much as I like Scola.

New Jersey being left with Dragic and...Farmar?...at the 1? Ooooouch.

Maybe they can rectum-fy that with our and NY's draft picks.

(Think we should aim for Kevin Love and a defensive-minded 2 or 3.)

 

MAYBE he has the ability to sway a big star. He hasn't done it so far, since no big stars came to Utah and none have come to the Nets yet.

If it was just Lowry for Williams straight up disregarding salaries, then sure I will take the established track record of Williams over the unknown long term potential of Lowry. But we would be giving up more than JUST Lowry which is where the debate comes in. Whatever small bump, if any, Williams gives over Lowry's current level of production will be pretty much canceled out by losing Scola or Martin and what ever else the team has to trade. So it all comes down to if the move brings you Howard or not. Or being convinced that Lowry will not be able to maintain his current level of play and Williams bouncing back to potentially best PG in the league level. Otherwise you are likely to be worse as a team and with more money commited to one player, and quite possbily with a star who quickly decides he wants out of Houston just like he wanted out of Utah and New Jersey.

Williams isn't exactly a fan favorite around the league. Despite Deron's more established resume, he has only made the all star team twice. He isn't likely to start in the all star game this year (It may just be a popularity contest, but Lowry actually had more votes than Williams at the first count, though Lowry had more players in front of him vote wise in the west than Williams does in the east). Our national media coverage just based off of getting Williams would be about the same as what the Nets are getting now.


Beyond that, the question still remains as to why Williams would want to come here in the first place without guarantees of another star coming to join him? I don't see him coming to Houston to be involved in a rebuilding phase any more than I see him doing that with the Nets.

 

My last post on it debating you because I agree with DD. Magic's PER high is 27, which he hit once. I'll even give you an extra 2 times if you want to round up:

http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/j/johnsma02.html

Lebron James avg per is 27.

http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/j/jamesle01.html

He's topped Magic's high in 6 of his 9 seasons. Per PER, Magic's best season has never been as good as LeBron's best season and his best season is simply what LeBron gives you on average. Hogwash.

 

I honestly have no idea on the exact percentages, but I feel like Lowry is shooting a completely respectable percentage on his 3's in late game clutch situations and doing it pretty frequently. His FT% is way up and I feel just as confident with him shooting them as Martin at this point.

Lowry is only 25. Just because he hasn't done it before doesn't exclude him from being capable of doing it now or in the future. It's not like he has had the starting gig for 5 years or something.

I do however agree, for better or worse that Williams has the star label that we can never be sure Lowry will gain. As deserving as I think he will be by seasons end, there is just no way to know for sure how other teams, gms and players will view him until we see if we make the playoffs and how he and the rest of the team performs.

Could be too late by then for us to make a deal, but then again maybe it isn't. It's looking like we will have a fair amount of money coming off the books this season and if things go our way(I understand you don't think they will) we may be in a much better position with Lowry instead of Williams by seasons end.

I really agree with Bima when he mentioned in his write up that our best trade scenarios will likely come after the season closer to the draft. Martin and Scola have that much less money owed on their deals and become easier to sell in trades not to mention the possibilities of Parsons, Patterson and even Morris improving their stock as the season goes on.

All that said I guess I'm going to continue to be in the trust Morey to do the right thing boat, hope Stern doesn't screw us again and we finally get back on the path to another Championship.

 

I don't even think you are reading what Sam is writing anymore.

 

So suddenly everyone here is happy with the status quo?

 

I don't know. In some ways, Lowry reminds me of Derek Fisher, only vastly better. Fish, the b*stard, has had a very long career.

Enjoying the back and forth. I don't think we get Williams, if he's getable, without an extension, and without being fairly certain another star is coming as well. Lowry has become too valuable to deal him plus one or two other starters, plus possibly young talent, plus probably a pick for Williams, not without knowing it's a "package deal" (another deal, or a larger, multiple team trade, where we get the other piece), at least in my opinion.

 

Why help LA get Deron? Why not deal Scola, Martin, and Dragic for Deron and change? Lowry and Deron are strong enough to check most twos with Lee and Williams getting time for matchup purposes. I mean Deron may give up a few inches to Martin but he also has long arm-span and 30lbs on him. I would actually feel more comfortable with Deron checking twos over Martin.

Lowry
Deron
Parsons
Patterson
Dalembert

You still have a collection young players that can be packaged for a try at Dwight.

 

Why do you find it "hogwash"? It's math. LeBron scores way more than Magic ever could, or ever did...and gives him a big advantage in PER.

So what, you shouldn't be surprised by this.

 

I am reading all of his novels. You clearly must not be reading what I am writing anymore.

 

Are you honestly asking me why I am calling any stat that says LeBron was better than Magic for most of his seasons hogwash? So you would rather have LeBron James than Magic Johnson? If so, how many coaches, scouts, players and GM's do you think would agree with you?

 

I think he has a big sway potential on Dwight. If it was devin Harris favors and brook Lopez I guarantee you he would have never mentioned nets a a destination. Ya I don't know if deron would want to play here but clutch wouldn't have posted this without him knowing something. Now if this was some hoops hype or real gm garbage article I'd think think otherwise but it's a clutchfans article.

 

Voting against this trade doesn't mean that you're happy with the state of things as they stand. I'm not sold on Deron's star-drawing power, and if he's all we have to show after moves when next season begins, we may have just locked ourselves into an even longer cycle of mediocrity by making a (likely) marginal upgrade at our strongest position and likely weakening the other positions where we're currently thin on depth, but not to the point where we're in tanking territory and without improving our salary flexibility. Next year's free agency market is really bare aside from the possibility of Dwight Howard, and every year you don't put a big name next to Deron is another year closer to a past-prime Deron making more and more money. If we have to move him, then I don't see us getting anywhere near as good of a package as Utah got for him. So I'm against pulling the trigger on such a deal unconditionally. The nixed Gasol deal plus Nene was one I would have taken in a heartbeat. If Dwight is 100% coming after Deron trade? Then yeah.

 

Weakness in character like being charged with assault and battery?

 

Thanks, Knote. Since we would not be getting Nene this time around, hopefully we could keep the Knicks' pick as a consolation. Or course, it now appears that Dally at 2 years, $14 million, partially guaranteed might end up being a better deal than 4 years, $50 million guaranteed to Nene.

While getting just Gasol as our "splash" is no where close to as exciting as the prospect of landing D12/DWill, it is probably much more realistic. A trade like this could vault us to a #4 seed in the West. Even a second round flameout in the playoffs would create a whole lot more excitement around here than either being the 14/15th best team, or tanking and getting the #9 pick in the draft. The Texans just lost a second round game, and look at how excited this town was about just getting that far.

 

No I am reading you. From what I have read Sam isn't saying PER is the almighty judge of a player's worth, but you seem to think he is saying that.

 

I understand what you are saying about Fish and I agree. However, Fish and Kyle do not have the same body types. Fish is leaner and more defined. And you have to admit, Fish is the exception in these shorter, thicker type players.

 

Sam is using stats, such as PER, to conclude that Lowry > Williams. Those same stats, such as PER, can lead to faulty conclusions. When comparing, you have to look at them relative to that situation. If you were reading me then this is the message that should have come across.

 

The biggest question for me is whether:

1) Kyle is/has been playing over his head since the middle of last season and will come down to earth at some point as the law of averages takes effect.

2) All Kyle needed was confidence, and after the Brooks trade, Kyle turned on the jets and now we see the true player he has always had the potential to be.

is true.