[ClutchFans] Jeremy Lin, James Harden after Rockets' 99-93 win over Wizards

That's not to say you're not reasonable as well!

Just replied to the wrong post.

 

Really? In the Wizards game? Perhaps I should re-watch it.

I really wish to see Lin play more minutes. I know it would have to come at the expense of TD's minutes but the earlier they iron out this backcourt chemistry issue, the better. Staggering their minutes or benching Lin in favor of TD seemed like a band-aid fix in the interest of winning IMO.

 

The minute I saw "The voice of reason" I knew you responded to the wrong post.

 

People might call me crazy but I think it should Harden's minutes should be reduced as well. He played 39 minutes last night and usually plays over 40. This is bad for a number of reasons:
1) If you're tired you're more likely to be injured
2) If you're tired your shooting will suffer late in the game
3) By the playoffs (we WILL make it) you'll be burned out.

 

Love it!

 

Just need to be patient. You can see that the coaching staff is finally addressing the issue of Jeremy having to defer so much. That 38-point game Lin had served as a wake up call. I'm just glad Lin showed that he can definitely score even against good defensive teams such as the spurs given the opportunity.

Again, just be patient and we will eventually see the Beard-Sanity combo in full effect sometime soon.

 

I have a shirt of the same color as Harden's.

 

From John Hollinger's "Hey, look on the positive side" (via ESPN Insider)

Linsanity? Still there

Remember when James Harden had to come off bench in Oklahoma City because there was too much ball-needing overlap between him, Kevin Durant and Russell Westbrook? It's fair to wonder whether the Rockets need to pursue a similar arrangement to get Jeremy Lin the ball enough now that he's been teamed with Harden. Somehow, Lin had only played 57 Harden-free minutes heading into Monday's game against San Antonio, and had posted disappointing results while struggling as a floor-spacer next to the basketball world's second-most prominent left-handed JH.

The good news in all this is that Harden sat out Monday's game against San Antonio, and Lin showed he still has the goods to be an offensive focal point if he's not paired with Harden. Going up against a top-notch opponent, Lin scored 38 points, made only two turnovers and generally looked like the guy who had Knicks fans in a lather last spring.

The solution couldn't be more hammer-to-the-head obvious: Play Lin when Harden sits, and give him the rock in a constant stream of pick-and-rolls for those 12 minutes. In other words, do almost exactly what Oklahoma City did with Harden. This would mean "demoting" Lin to a backup role, but it actually would make his function in Houston much more prominent, not to mention helpful.

And since this is a story about the positives, the real takeaway from Monday is that yes, by golly, Lin is still capable of this. Not that he'll score 38 or make 4 of 5 3s every time, but he can be an offensive focal point and create high-value scoring chances. Linsanity wasn't a mirage.

 

What do you mean retro? I wear that all the time and I'm a fashion stud!!

 

Good thoughts. I like it.
But don't you think there will come a time when the guy will be playing so much unstructured offense that he will figure it out and deal with it instinctively? I mean let's say he goes through 100 more of these type of 'ill defined role' games, could he not by then have gotten so used to it that he doesn't need to think so hard anymore?

 

if Parsons, Asik, 2Pat did this regularly, Lin would average 35 assists...

 

Everyone sees this except the only one that matters...Coach Mchale...

I dont believe Lin needs to be demoted to accomplish the same result...its more about when he needs to be used as the focal point...for example...Let both players start...but instead give Harden an early break by like the 3-4 min mark. Then bring TD and have Lin run the offense...
At the start of the 2nd quarter...send Jeremy to the bench...allow for TD to run the offense...and have Harden play as a pure SG...by the 7 min mark..bring back Jeremy and let him run the offense and close out strong...

For the 2nd half, once again let them both start...This time let Jeremy go to the bench earlier(like around the 4-5 min mark in the 3rd)...Then bring in TD...This time allow Harden to run the offense...At the start of the fourth...give Harden a break...bring back Jeremy at the start of the 4th...let him run the offense..and attack...then bring back Harden around 8-9 min mark...and let both of them close out...

This should be the rotation for these guys...this way...you can max out the individual talents of Harden and Lin...and give them adequate rest with the help of Douglas...They should get into a routine...so their bodies know when to turn up their game..and when to do other things...I believe this will improve the team...tremendously...just imo...

These team is filled with team first guys...and players that are really not selfish...Harden has shown that he doesnt need to score to have an impact on the game...same with Jeremy...having too much unselfishness...will lead to poor offensive sets...and confusion...By clearing defining the roles of their young stars...you could bring out an efficiency that hasnt been tapped yet...Go Rockets..

 

Agree 99% except the "allow for TD to run the offense" part.

I like TD and think he has done great in recent games, but the thing about TD is he plays the same way on both ends of the floor without taking into consideration what's going on around him. He defends everyone the same way (aggressively pestering the player) and makes plays the same way (regardless of who has the hot hands, the type of defense the opposing team plays, etc.). I'd actually love to see him develop as a pure SG and leave playmaking to Harden and Lin.

 

Finally, someone on here who understands Lin.

 

Watch the Spurs game again and then watch every other game this season.

It's pretty obvious what the problem is: Harden is a ball stopper - whether its by choice or by (coaching) design, whenever he touches the ball he stops, does a jabstep or two, and then starts working.

The current system isn't designed to have Harden play off the ball, its either he runs the offense, or Lin/TD into a PNR, pass to the big guy setting the screen, who then passes it to Harden coming off the strong side to do his ISO. By then you've run off about 12-14 seconds off the clock, and either Harden drives, or kicks it out last minute to someone for a spot up jumper. Knowing that the play is going to result in Harden taking the shot, there's rarely any off the ball movement, and players literally just stand around waiting to see the ISO result - psychologically, this ruins a players incentive to run off the ball.

Now, when Harden was out in the Spurs game, Lin ran the offense on his own; this is where his strength lies. When Lin runs the offense, anyone on the team is a scoring threat - and it showed. Players played off the ball better and there was fluid off the ball movement, knowing that if they got into good spots, that they would have a chance to touch the ball and score.

Take a look at the box score for the Spurs game - we had 3 players over 20 pts (Lin/Parsons/Asik), 2 additional players over 10 (TD/Morris), and 6 players with over 10 shot attempts (Lin/Parsons/Asik/TD/Delfino/Patterson).

IMO, Lin and Harden are both being mismanaged. More plays should be run with Harden as an off the ball option. And Lin should be allowed to create on his own - do you think CP3/Rondo/Parker have restrictions to pass only to Garnett/Pierce/Griffin/Duncan? Of course not, they create looking to set up their go to guys, but if that guy is not open, they look to create for others.

Until the coaching staff figures this out, we'll have to sit tight and watch iso harden for a bit.

 

I had a different reaction to Lin's post game. I didn't think he was down at all. And regarding his comment about it's not just about him and Harden, he's made that comment before when interviewers asked him the question about them coexisting. It's a team-first comment. He's trying to say that he's not just focused on himself and getting his points, but that the scoring should be relatively balanced for the entire team, not just for him and Harden. So Lin's answer to that question is very characteristic of Lin. He's always been a team-first guy--sometimes to a fault. He needs to be a little more selfish on the court sometimes.

 

Meh I don't know this seems very sensationalistic to me.

I think what Hollinger said is true he needs the rock in a constant stream of pick & rolls to pass & score. And by constant stream I mean constant over & over & over again. That is how a lot of teams do it, Spurs, Knicks, Lakers when Nash comes back. But the thing is that the Rockets don't have that many people that can set picks effectively (just one Asik & Smith but he is a back up). Patterson is soft so his picks as usual are also soft. The Knicks for example have like 6. Carmelo, Tyson, Amare, Kurt Thomas, Rasheed Wallace, Camby etc.

Off of the PNR Lins first instinct is to pass, Hardens first instinct is to score. We saw this last year & we are seeing it this year. When Harden is out there Lin doesn't score much off of the PNR he passes. In last nights game the Wizards were leaving Patterson/Asik wide open for the pick & pop/ pick & Roll & sticking with James & Jeremy. We saw this in the OKC game as well.

In the Spurs game without James, Lin was looking to pass & score off the PNR. The teams offensive system is pretty simple. Somebody brings the ball up (Lin or Douglas) then swings to Harden who runs the PNR Harden then scores or passes. If he passes then someone else has a catch & shoot opportunity. Or Harden would get an isolation play called or Asik would set a screen for him to get a shot off or he can beat his man off the dribble. In the Spurs game Lin was in that Harden roll. So TD would bring the ball up swing to Lin who would run the PNR to either score or pass. They would set a screen for him to get a shot off. When Shooting Lin is a lot more comfortable shooting off the dribble or calling for a screen in an isolation situation than he is in spot up situations. He needs to improve his spot up shooting, he was mediocre at it in NY & he is still mediocre at it in Houston.

So what the coaches have to do is find a way that both Lin & Harden to get that steady diet of PNR's consistently together. When Lin gets those PNR's over & over again he is aggressive. Because right now Harden gets most of them. The issue is that the Rockets only have one legitimate pick setter in the starting 5 Asik. If Parsons & Patt could set picks/screens then Harden & Lin would likely have better balance because you could do some off the ball screens as well. The fact that the coaching staff haven't ripped Patt a new one for not setting effective screens since the beginning of the season is laughable. A solution would be benching Patt & starting Greg but then that affects the spacing on the floor cause Smith can't hit those outside shots. Also that depresses Patts trade value which I definitely do not want.

This is all a very complicated situation. The team is very young & still figuring stuff out. The coaching staff is still trying to figure it out as well. Also with young players the coaches never know what to expect night in & night out because young players are very inconsistent. So tinkering with the rotation is like a gamble. Last night it looked like they were running new stuff out there as well that they had implemented in practice. There also appeared to be a bit of tinkering in terms of how they situated Lin & Harden on the floor together. I think McHale is trying to do the Lin on the left wing Harden on the right wing stuff. Patience is key.

Just a few thoughts.

 

The problem with this is that after his contract is over, he'll go sign with the Lakers or something because he'll feel underutilized and want to be a starter like Harden did with OKC. And it's too much to pay him his fair value if he's really starter material but you're playing him off the bench.

Not to mention that the Rockets would under-perform if you've got that much talent and let it languish on the bench instead of maximizing it. You don't play someone this much money with this much talent to just play 12 minutes each game, which means that during the overlapping time when Harden and Lin are both on the court, you still need to figure out how to play them together.

The sooner the coaches figure out how to run an offense with both of them on the court at the same time, the better. Staggering them is only a band-aid like others have said, and doesn't resolve the underlying issue.

You need to figure out if you can play them both on the court at the same time. If not, trade one of them for a piece that fits. Staggering them doesn't solve anything long term. And, if anything, reduces his trade value if they are really incompatible and you need to trade one of them. Not to mention that it hurts the development of the team as well as the individual development of both these two young guys.

 

There's also the option that if this coaching team can't get them to work together, replace the coaching team. Find a coaching team that can get job done of fitting the two of them into a working offense where both can fit together on the court at the same time and excel.

 

Possible. Like I said, I wasn't 100% sure and might have over-analyzed it. It just didn't seem like one of his "normal" interviews (and I've watched my fair share of them).