[ClutchFans] If there’s an ‘idiot’ here, it’s Charles Barkley

Are you calling the debate "unnecessary" because you know Barkley is closer to the truth about the importance of Money Ball to winning than Morey has proven. At least the "unnecessary debate over anlytics" is actuall bball discussion.

Whining about TNT is not!

I like Morey and the tweet made me laugh, but it was still a troll job that will not affect TNT anymore than his offensive analytics affected JVG, Adelman and McHale.


Who cares what TNT/Barkley say, people! Why is our CEO and GM publicly calling out Barkley when everyone should know it won't change what the Media says.

I honestly don't get why it upsets us Rox fans. My gut instinct is Les wants Barkley called out.

 

The bolded statement...you are just flat out wrong.

 

So, by bolding that statement, then you must agree with my latter one in the post that JVG and Adelman also did not give Morey's analytics much credence in their offensive and defensive schemes vs their how knowledge and belief in their coaching staffs and scouts.

That said, what you bolded I meant to specify in greater detail...I'm specifically referring to Money Ball's usefulness for offensive coaching decisions (as is noted in several other posts of mine today). I completely agree with Morey on the usefulness of analyzing future Assets, but that aspect of Money Ball (Drafts/Player Acquisition) is not what Barkley was talking about.

Now that I've responded to you one-liner post that offers little if any insight to your take, answer me at least one of these questions:

• Why do you care what TNT says?
• Why does Morey care?
• Why does the Rockets CEO care?
• What useful gain are they trying to achieve by thinking they can call out Barkley?

Sorry cfnet. I love this place, but I think you're merely protecting Morey's silly attempt at trolling Barkley, which has 0% chance of success.

 

I agree.

 

Yep

It was stupi of Mory to send out that tweet to begin with.

He should be working the phone lines for a PG instead of taking jabs at a known idiot like Chuck who is there for the viewership

 

Quite the contrarian's position you've carved out on this one!

A lot of people watch Barkley. It isn't good for the Rockets to have someone falsely criticizing the team. It hurts the Rocket's marketing (those t-shirts pay for salaries), it hurts the Rockets recruiting (hard to sign FAs), it insults the players on our team that work hard to get better (wouldn't you be insulted if someone publicly said you sucked at your job), and it annoys the s*** out of Rocket fans that can't hit mute fast enough and accidentally hear it.

 

Regarding the 0% chance of success... it is probably higher chance of success than casting a vote for a public office, and I care more about the Rockets than I do about politics.

 

This should be spread everywhere. There is no response Barkley could come up with.

I like chuck. Met him in person when I was a kid and he was a rocket here....and he was cool.

But wrong is wrong and dude is letting some grudge cloud any good judgement he might have.

 

About analytic applications for coaching, I can't say much, but more knowledge is usually a good thing. It could be helpful or harmful depending on how it is used, but like everything else, you have to learn how to apply it.

That said, the Rockets could be applying it to their detriment. I find it hard to believe that would explain Howard's post offense.

 

Maybe Morey can goad Chuck into making another "kiss his ass" declaration. How about if the terrible defensive Rockets make it out of the first round? WCF?

I loved watching Barkley play, especially for the Rockets. Can anyone forget his 33 rebound game against the Suns?

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Just wish he'd drop his irrational hatred of the Rockets.

Perhaps he's very inarticulately making a point that I do agree with. There's no magical model or formula that can be used to construct a great team. If it was that easy, then everyone would use it to win a championship.

However, analytics can be a valuable tool to inform strategy and personnel moves. It helps you maximize the utilization and even acquisition of talent.

Talent is still king in sports. Only one team can have an Olajuwon, Jordan, or James.

 

Why is Murray playing Call of Duty when he should be working on his jump Shot?!!

 

Thanks for answering one of my questions regarding why we should care.

But I don't think our players really care nor FAs (unless you mean Parsons getting offended), and we should expect media negativism to not adversely affect their game play. I'd trade a player and fire a coach who caved to media criticism.

Hakeem was dissed by the media when they awarded Robinson the MVP. What did Hakeem do? Harden was driven to improve, too, and boy did he. DMo and Josh are reacting well, as well. As for Howard, let's just consider that cfnet dishes out as much, if not more, criticism of him as the media.

We are also selling out every game, and Rockets gear sales is surely not dropping due to what Barkley says.

What's left is your statement that it "annoys the **** out of Rockets fans." Probably annoys the **** out of Les, too. Now Tad Brown and Morey are challenging Barkley through twitter. And, as one of Clutch's main points, the media is only picking up on the jock vs nerd part, and some are taking it a wee bit too personally, when the real argument is about Barkley's grudge with the Rox.

So, Morey's tweet failed to steer the discussion to the that grudge. He failed at his main objective. Tad failed; Morey failed. I guess now it is up to DMo to get a post-game interview with Charles and apply some of his wit and humor to the grudge subject.

I'm going out on a limb and saying Barkley probably agrees with this. He is absolutely carrying a grudge. I'm not so sure it clouds his judgement; he's just hatin or if we do well, he changes the subject to Memphis ( ). Clutch probably could have spent another 2-5 pages explaining by digging up more anti-Rockets bias, if he was so inclined.

You'd expect Barkley to eventually play along (like with kissing the ass) and embrace Morey and McHale as guests on the show, for the humor of it. The grudge seems to be lasting too long. And he was legitimately pissed when Ernie showed the tweet for a response.

but, "...nerds who couldn't get the girl in high school." pure gold. Sorry guys; I laughed! Don't take it personally.

 

I know we love to play the underdog, and gripe about being dissed or ignored by the sports press. It's in Rocket Fan DNA. We fail to recognize that we're easily better off than 50% of the league, and more likely about 80%. Take away LA, NY, and Miami, and you're left with a second tier squad of teams that get quite a bit of deserved attention.

I agree that there is no direct correlation between recruiting, player performance, and the stuff that comes out of Barkley's mouth, but I do think there is a cumulative effect. I'm not in the advertising industry, but branding is a legitimate concept, and if you keep repeating something enough times, people start to believe it.

Bottom line - Barkley doesn't prepare for his job and doesn't know what he is talking about outside of his direct playing experience. He is, however, hilarious. Barkley needs to be the comic relief, and the other guys need to elevate the conversation. Instead they have Kenny who is OK, Shaq who makes Barkley look like a genius, and what's his name who just seems like a time keeper.

 

Yup ..+1

 

Except JVG does believe in analytics. He has been a speaker at the Sloan conference on coaching.

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Nobody says analytics is the be all and end all of winning, including Morey. Of course talent is king, Morey has said that forever. Why do you think we have been trading assets to get stars until he got Harden? Why do you think he wanted 3 stars this summer?

As for using analytics for coaching decisions:
Why would you shoot a two pointer a few feet inside the 3 point line rather than a 3? Analytics will tell you that most players shoot close to the same % at that range, and even if it was slightly less, the extra point makes it more efficient. JVG and Battier have discussed how analytics gives you a better scouting report. Which way does a player like to go. Coaches have been doing this since grade school, make the guy go left or right depending on what his strong hand is. Analytics takes that to the next level and tells you what their favorite spots are and their weakest spots for opponents and your own players. Then it's up to the coaches and the players to take that data and make plays that put players in those positions, or prevents the other team from getting there. A bad team with analytics isn't beating a good team that doesn't use it, but a good team with analytics has an advantage over an equally talented one.

 

Adelman also believed in analytics, and carried what he learned with the Rockets to the timberwolves:

http://www.twincities.com/ci_23071784/sports-new-math-timberwolves-have-embraced-use-analytics

 

morpheus133 --

both JVG and Adelman got fired and certainly did not embrace analytics here. It represents a void of time in any statement saying Morey has shown success with his extreme use of Analytics The whole story was Morey was looking for a coach to implement what he says.

Also, JVG was invited to Sloan for a contrary opinion. He wasn't there to preach analytics over standard coach and scouting. Not a good example of yours

That whole segment with JVG at Sloan is about game situations that use percentages. That's not really the analytics we are talking about. That's like Football strategy, do you go for two in this situation...for example. That does not dispute the point that JVG is always talking down the importance of Analytics; although he has an open mind. I do agree that there is value on scouting defenses. But like I said before, coaches and scouts will be able to adjust much faster than what an accumulation of data says...which will trail behind any trends that coaches/scouts can see


And the article about the Timberwolves...that's not about Rick Adelman. That's about his son who they placed in charge of using the SportsVu. I agree of value of SportsVu, but Rick Adelman doesn't have much to say about. As I've said, just because teams are buying that and hiring people to filter through the data does not mean Rick Adelman "believes" in it over himself or scouts.

The media is writing stories about SportsVu is not an indicator of Analytics surpassing traditional methods, certainly not Adelman.

 

Awesome ownage Clutch

 

Defending Barkley on *this?* That's not very bright.

 

nah, I just don't want to be equated with nerds who can't get girl friends

Are you saying, "If there's an idiot here, it's heypartner."
Are you protecting Morey in the safe haven of a clutchfans.net blog post?

His tweet achieved nothing and was silly tactics against Barkley.

People here make it sounds like Barkley tweeted back to Morey ala a Dolan email response to a fan. that's not what happened. Ernie put Barkley on the spot to respond, because TNT loves to bring out the raw Barkley.

seriously, what did Barkley do wrong other than take Morey's "vitriol" tweet and answer it with more, stunning vitriol. "Nerd!"

bottomline: Morey and Tad Brown twitter attempts to create a discussion about Barkley's grudge against the Rockets failed. The discussion is about jocks and nerds now. Well done, Morey. Now the Rockets are a discussion of extreme analytics and nerds.

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