ClutchFans Game Thread: Rockets @ Mavericks 1/16/2013

It is true that offense should not be structured around Lin when Harden is paid 80 million. But, Harden ISO is clearly not working and the coaches just don't seem to have a clue.

 

Lin doesn't beling in the same conversation as Westbrook and Irving. He's putting up about 13 and 6 over the last two months, and I agree he has been playing well, but he needs to be more agressive more often.

Uh, the Knicks had Chandler and Stoudamire running the P&R, a bit different than Asik and Patterson.

I'm just not convinced that runnng a heavy dose of Lin/Harden P&R can be effective in anything other than short spirts. Harden doesn't even roll, he just stands there.

Lin cannot control what plays are run for him by the coaches, but he CAN control how much confidence he has and he can take over the game whenever he wants to.. we have seen that all season. It's stupid to blame the coaches for Lin not living up to expectations this year.

 

Wrong, Harden was but Lin was above average. This season both are pretty good.

 

Thank you. Now someone just needs to email this stuff to the rockets coaching staff. Honestly I don't think they know about any of this. Honestly I don't think they know any real details about how Lin was successful during his run last year. All they care about is being stubborn and forcing square pegs into round holes and then blaming inexperience when results don't work out. This team has a winning record (for now anyway) because of the raw talents of their players not a single iota because of the coaching (and using that term loosely).

 

I completely agree. My whole argument was that the Rockets don't have a great big man that runs the P&R well..

It was working great when we were winning 11 out of 13.. just because we are missing shots we usually make doesn't mean we need to re-structure are whole offense. They are young players and are gonna have ups and downs. What this team needs to improve is defense, the coaches don't have a clue in that regard. Offensively, it's not on the coaches if we miss wide open layups and free throws.

 

They are more than pretty good they are both elite. Harden is first in the NBA out of 450 NBA players. Lin is 38th in the NBA. And this is without a roll man & without even running the PNR as much as other PG's.

 

Kyrie and Cleveland seizes to amaze me.....take Portland down...up by almsot 20 in the first half and now just 3 points ahead?:grin:

 

Harden is a 6'5" turnover machine who doesn't play a lick of defense and doesn't create for his teammates, except off broken plays he intended for himself.

It's very difficult to win in this league when that's your anointed best player.

 

Just some things to consider...

James Harden this season
PnR Ball Handler - 1.08 PPP, #1 in the NBA

Jeremy Lin this season
PnR Ball Handler - 0.86 PPP, #33 in the NBA

Playing of PnRs are by FAR the most efficient plays for Harden and Lin. And it's not an accident that the NBA is called by many analysts and commentators a "Pick and Roll league".

They're good and efficient at it. So, Harden gets more plays in total than Lin because he's the #1 option, but the proportion of PnR vs other plays should be significantly Higher in my opinion because they can score effectively with it.

There is a LOT of drop off that can happen before PnR should not be the first choice in offensive play sets, especially in the half court.

And if it wasn't effective in more than short spurts, a lot of teams would not be running 35%+ PnR plays for their guards (the ones who benefit the most from the PnR due to the lack of a post up game).

 

Lots of missed free throws = sign of fatigue

The style we play during that winning stretch was simply not sustainable, MaHale basically ran them to the grounds. Hopefully the breakout performances of Patrick Beverly means we'll have a deeper rotation & fresher legs.

 

i agree and have been saying all season we dont have the BIG....however it really weasnt working during the 11 out of 13...we were just hitting the outside shot....now harden isnt and either is delfino.....by the way delfino is a serious liability with the ball in is hands

 

Beverley will come back down to earth.

He shot worse than Scott Machado in the D-League.

 

Do people know that when we say Harden has a PPP of 1.08 it has nothing to do with Asik. PPP is shots leading to FT, TO's or FGA. So when we say Lin has a PPP of 0.86 it has nothing to do with Tyson Chandler or Omer or Amare & has everything to do with Lin & Lin alone. PPP doesn't include pass out situations it is solely scoring or TO's by the ball handler. Nothing to do with the roll man or the spot up shooter.

 

Excellent post!

Not sure what the coaches are thinking, but hey, to give the the benefit of the doubt, maybe they realize this is a rebuilding year and they want Lin to work at what he's bad at because they see his potential

 

These numbers are truly amazing when you consider our roll men suck, and the quality of teams we've faced.

 

LOL wut.. Sarcasm?

Okay, I think we have a misunderstanding. I was responding to someone that said we should be running more Lin/Harden P&R as in Harden should be setting the pick for Lin.

Whatever I was arguing against something I misunderstood. Yes you are right they are both good P&R players.

But the point I was casually trying to make earlier in this thread before I got dogpiled on was that Lin has the ability to be this agressive and confident whenever he wants, and I wish he would do it more often. We were playing great basketball while running the same ol' non-pick and roll offense. There were many ways to win this game tonight.

 

You're not making sense.

How would Lin put up the same stats as Kyrie or Westbrook when he has a far lower usage/takes much less shots/has much less touches? Kyrie and Russell put up 20+ shots most games and have the ball in their hands a ton. Of course they are going to put up more points/assists.

Russell was actually shooting worse than Lin in overall FG% at 40% but still averaging 20 because he takes a ton of shots. I think Lin broke 20 shots 1 time and that just happened to be the Spurs game where Harden was out.

What would Westbrooks stats look like if Durant controlled the ball 75% of the time and he only took about 10 shots per game?

 

This. I know he's teaching them sets and the Rox do/try to run them. But on possessions out of time-outs in late/close game situations... it's just absolute chaos every time.

 

Well, to be fair, the better the roll man, the more defensive pressure the opposing team will put on him in order to shut him down, leading to better opportunities for the handler.

 

Actually, Harden's paid three times as much as Lin, not to get the whole "salary vs salary cap" argument started again.