[ClutchFans] BimaThug: Houston's Future: Dollars and Sense

There is no such rule. It SOUNDS like a rule that might exist, making many believe that it does. But it doesn't.

I'll give you an example of a recent sign-and-trade deal that involved players from muliple teams being signed and then traded.

This past summer, in the big four-team trade between Toronto, Orlando, Dallas and Memphis, Hedo Turkoglu was signed and traded from Orlando to Toronto; at the same time, Shawn Marion was signed and traded from Toronto to Dallas.

 

But can we package Scola with anyone (i.e Battier) right after we signed Scola?

 

Oh, wait. I may have misunderstood your question.

If you are asking whether a signed-and-traded player can be combined with other outgoing salaries in order to bring in a larger salary from another team, the answer is still "yes".

Look at the Jason Kidd trade that brought him to Dallas. The Mavericks signed-and-traded Keith Van Horn to $4M+ deal in order to match up the outgoing salaries against Kidd's then-monstrous salary.

 

No, it cant...read the bolded part. Sending cash in a trade does NOT fill in for non-matching contracts. It can be included as a financial incentive for the receiving team to make the trade.

 

maybe i just got it confused with trading guys you just traded for. i still could swear that this issue was coming up a ton during one of our more active trading speculation periods (i wanna say right before the tmac trade) so much so that people got sick of answering it. oh well, good to know it's an option.

 

now i can go to work and school these b-astards who are against the trade

 

I think you might be referring to the issue of not being able to combine trade exceptions except under certain circumstances?

http://members.cox.net/lmcoon/salarycap.htm#Q74

 

Another fantastic job by BimaThug. It cleared up a lot of things for me.

 

while that may actually be the issue i remember everybody asking about all the time during the mcgrady trade to the point you wanted to stab your eyes out every time they did, i knew about that already. who knows what i was referring to?

 

great read, i love these because i dont follow the economics side of it very closely, except for the general stuff...

Hopefully chuck decides he'd rather have a permanent home than extra cash, would love to keep him around.

just a few things:

I think i read somewhere the clips gained the ability to offer that max contract with the camby trade, i'm guessing their math was slightly off?

And i think you were just using the 14th pick as an example since based on current odds it's the most likely pick, but i wanted to point out to others that all lottery teams have a shot at the top 3 picks, once those are determined based on the weighted system, then the remaining teams are arranged in reverse order of their record. I remember this summer some fans thought only the 3 worst teams had a shot at the top 3 picks, so just wanted to clear that up.

 

Thanks, Clutch, for featuring this and THANKS, BT, for spelling it out.

My own take is that while your info is spot on with reasoned assumptions that the lux hit may be mitigated by:

1 - a new deal for Yao where he accepts a reduced salary for '10-'11 v a better long term deal than can be anticipated when the CBA dust settles; perhaps a year more than he might play, even, to ease the annuals.

2 - a targeted player (Bosh? Perhaps Amar'e?) who will be offset in an SnT by the inclusion of Scola/Shane + a 10-14 1st round pick

3 - a multi-player trade for another targeted rotation player offset by inclusion of Andersen and/or Chuck and/or and/or and maybe the crapshoot of the '11 swap?

These would allow a shaping of the roster as it's envisioned to make a legit run at the ring while keeping tax implications within controllable areas.

But, of course, these are just my guesses. You went far beyond with facts and reasoned conclusions. Thanks for it.

 

Awesome


Question

Im just curious as to why its a waste for another team to go after a RFA?

Do they lose money when the original team matches? Or can you only offer one RFA a contract therefore missing out on others? What exatly is the dont bother part?

Basically if I knew someone was gonna be kept and Im playing the financial part of the game I would make another team pay as much as I can get them to pay to limit further options. So basically what I am asking is whats stopping a team (or multiple teams) to do this?

 

Good question. I didn't want to stray too far off topic to discuss this issue, so I figured that I would just allude to it in the artcle.

When a team signs another team's restricted free agent to an offer sheet, the player's original team has 7 days (it used to be 15 days) to decide whether to match the offer sheet. A game that many GMs play with other teams is to wait the FULL 7 days, knowing full well that they'll match, before officially matching. This way, the other team's cap room is tied up in that offer sheet for a good week while other free agents are signing elsewhere.

Example: Let's say that the Clippers (with ~$15-16M in cap room) decide to make a play for Luis Scola. They want to sign at least one out of Scola, Rudy Gay and Carlos Boozer. If the Clippers sign Scola to an offer sheet with a starting salary of $7M, and if Gay and Boozer are demanding at least $11-12M, then the Clippers can only sign one of those players (for simplicity's sake, let's leave other trades, etc., out of this hypothetical). Daryl Morey could then just sit on his thumbs (knowing that the Rockets will match) and let the Clippers watch Gay and Boozer sign with other teams during that critical 7-day window. Then, after the full 7 days have elapsed, Morey can match the offer sheet, leaving the Clippers with NOTHING.

 

The GM of the original team knowing he'll match waits thus the 'punishment' they received for making the offer.

Plus - once an offer sheet is submitted the two teams cannot then negotiate an SnT.

 

Bima, good article but I think you may be overlooking one major aspect of the current state of affairs...

Part of the beauty of the New York trade is that Jeffries contract is going to be expiring next year. This years salary dump will become next years trade asset. He will undoubtedly be traded before the deadline next year and his $7 million will come off of the books.

Granted we may just take on more salary when he gets traded... but I have a feeling Morey will figure out a way to get under.

 

Going above the LT to get Martin could potential complicate things. Getting a real star is an absolute must. Yao can't be relied on,and trading for one will undoubtedly require us to get lucky with the Knicks' picks. Otherwise, we will remain a middle of the road team. I was under the impression that we were below the LT.

 

Hill cannot be Landry's replacement. Scola and Lowry will take up more salary than Jeffries's expiring contract. We need to get lucky in the upcoming draft.

 

Thank you for the rapid and thorough response. Thats basically what I was wondering.

 

Question about players on the team sent to the d-league {like Taylor}, do they get a NBA paycheck, or do they get paid from a d-league contract? Thanks for any info, and thanks for always posting the salary info, it's very much appreciated

 

i may be wrong, but i think nbdl teams have a combo of players under nba contracts and others under nbdl contracts( or probably just a salary for the year). Dorsey, for example, was directly drafted by the team and therefore worked out a contract with them, so he was under an NBA contract while in the d league. The guys the Vipers picked up from the NBDL "free agent" pool are under nbdl salary.