Clutch stats for extreme pressure situations over the last 3 seasons

Clutch stats are total BS because of the low attempts. 24 shots is equivalent to 1 NBA game. Its like you're using 1 game to determine a person's entire career.

 

LOL, what can we expect from a LeBron nuthugger?

If your argument is valid, then MJ's clutchness is also a mystery. As he only shot 3x shots in that situation and hit about half of them. It's using 1.5 games to determine his entire career.

 

vague phrases like pressure situations involves even more myth-making than last second shots. even if everyone has no clue how many makes or misses they're favorite clutch player or choke artist actually has, game-winners/last second shots are at least easily defined and easy to look at. then it's just up to people to realize that picking kobe's best seasons by a wide margin as the main thrust of the argument is just selectively picking data. "pressure situations" like stemming a run basically just means you define it however you want at any given moment and i'm guessing leads to ridiculous confirmation bias where you only remember what you consider pressure makes by the "clutch" guy and pressure misses by the "choker."

have those gm survey's ever had any answers that weren't just the most conventional wisdom-esque answers of the day? i'm guessing kobe won the most clutch shooter question even after the year he went 1-10 because conventional wisdom says kobe is the most clutch so that's just the answer everyone gives. and are coaches ever going to give any answer that isn't just some coachspeak answer to get them out of the interview? they aren't going to ruffle feathers and start listing all the guys they actually think aren't clutch and certainly aren't going to give in depth break downs of why certain guys are clutch or not. they'll just say kobe is clutch and move on with their lives without creating waves.

what about that pass he threw to artest against the suns where artest caught it and flipped it up at the buzzer for the win? oh, that wasn't a pass?

and i actually can't remember, but isn't lebron's game-winner against orlando (conveniently just outside the 3 year window) the last playoff game-winner by kobe or lebron? the only big shots right at the end of a game that i can remember by the lakers over 3 years are the kobe airball that artest caught, the kobe brick that gasol tipped in, and fisher's 3 to force OT against orlando. i think kobe had a chance at one against orlando but dribbled into a triple team and got blocked and it went to OT.

and lebron had the shot that put the series away against chicago but that was with like 30 seconds left so i guess to be really clutch, he should have just bricked that shot, shut down drose one more time, and then hit the clincher.

 

Where's Jeremy Lin? lol

Is he 1 for 1 or 1 for 2?

 

What do Rudy Gay haters do when confronted with numbers that demonstrate his effectiveness in shot-making in late-game, pressure situations? They just dismiss them, lol!

There's a reason Rudy Gay landed in the Rockets' lap during the draft. He's so clutch that he belongs in Clutch City.

 

When did I say I believe MJ's clutchness? I don't believe in anyone's clutchness, period. If a player is truly clutch then he'd never lose a game, pure and simple. If you can consistently make 3 pt daggers with two or three people all up your grill what's preventing you from making every single damn jumper you take? Why even miss normal jumpers if you can make clutch jumpers?

 

Because basketball is a team sport and sometimes no matter how well a player plays his team can still be down during the course of the game or losing.

Theres only one guy taking the last shot of the game so its easier to analyze his effectiveness in that situation.

 

This is garbage. It should really include more like the last minute of a close game and a larger sample size. It's hard to get a decent look with under 5 seconds and you are the premiere scorer that everyone knows will get the ball.

 

LeBron shouldn't even be on the list... i would bench him in clutch situations... actually thats a bit strong maybe i would get him to inbound to bosh or wade

 

Funny thing is Lakers for the most part didn't have to be in those situations where Kobe shoot for a tie or game winner. Lakers would usually have a decent lead and Kobe would shoot them out of those lead so he could go for those "hero" or "clutch" shots whatever you want to call them. It's the reason why he has so many more attempts than the others on that list.

 

The thing abotu the clutch is its the most pressured situation, more riding on it, this is more of a measure of mentality. Lebron is all around a great player and impacts the game in so many ways, its undisputeable, his flaw really is mental, he just lacks some sort of instinct, courage, and can't seem to take the heat in that final moment. He is sitll one of the best, but i think it does take away from him being 'great'(there is difference between being one of the best players and being a great player)

 

According to these stats, Rudy Gay isn't just on Kevin Durant's level, he's 3 times above it.

 

This guy trys to really go at Habbot who seems even in my measure to have some strong issue to prove kobe bryant isnt that good and that lebron can do no wrong both as a player and a human being(i've never seen a reporter be so apologetic and make excuses for ap layer like they do for lebron)



http://wrongagainhen.wordpress.com/

 

You clearly have a misunderstanding of what it means to be "clutch" if you came to this conclusion. When did anyone say that "clutch"=making every shot?

 

agreed, clutch isn't about makign every shot, its about having the mental presence of mind to be able to raise your game and play through the most pressured situation. Its almost undisputable that MJ and Kobe will keep their composure, shot missed or not, the situation and heat is not something they shy away from. On the other hand, lebron clearly is more likely to shy away and almost play less aggressive in the clutch. His problem is his mental weakness, he can take over games but he almost seems scared to get involved and take responsibility, heat, and reprecussions in the heat of the moment, might've been why he wanted to play with Wade. But its all there for us to see time and time again

 

Where did Lebron have anything to do in my post?

Without any definition of "crunch time" and the actually data posted the statements are worthless.

 

Spo agrees.

This season http://www.basketball-reference.com...e&c2val=&c3stat=&c3comp=ge&c3val=&order_by=fg :
Wade - 2/2
Bosh - 1/1 (assisted 3ptr)
Chalmers - 0/1 (3ptr)
Haslem - 0/1
LeBron - 0/0

 

Which explains the pick and roll with haslem instead of an isolation play. He was hoping they would trap lebron and force him to pass.

 

if i put all the variables in correctly and added it up right, then going back to 2000-01 (as far as b-r.com goes back) in the playoffs:

lebron 3-8
kobe 3-14


since that's all that matters, it looks like kobe needs to step it up (and kobe's 3 shots came in 2004 and 2006 so none were the reason for a championship).

 

I admit, there is no simple criteria for pressure situations. That doesn't make it irrelevant. We haven't found a great way to track defense and hustle in an objective statistical format, that doesn't mean it doesn't exist.

In Kobe's prime, an overwhelming majority of coaches and GM's considered him the most clutch. I'm all but certain advanced stat guys working for NBA teams have much more sophisticated "clutch" metrics or have at least thought long and hard about what drives that reputation. Anyone with a technical background knows that you can't just make a conclusion from data without taking into account the context and actually doing some analysis.

I can dismiss it when most fans or Charles Barkley or somebody like that has a view that is contrary to our findings but when all of the best basketball minds in the world say something, we need to go back find out why. To just dismiss it is lazy.