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Clips and Celts must convince the NBA that Doc and KG are not packaged

Discussion in 'NBA Dish' started by Carl Herrera, Jun 19, 2013.

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  1. Deckard

    Deckard Blade Runner
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    Wow. Any chance that this ends up a disaster, like what happened with the Rockets, Lakers, and Hornets in 2011?
     
    #41 Deckard, Jun 20, 2013
    Last edited: Jun 20, 2013
  2. Outlier

    Outlier Member

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    I have lost so much respect for Doc Rivers. Dude is a dick to bail out on the Celtics.
     
    #42 Outlier, Jun 20, 2013
    1 person likes this.
  3. JuanValdez

    JuanValdez Contributing Member

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    If the whole thing is scuttled by the league office, what then does Chris Paul do in free agency? Does he re-sign with the Clippers? Does he blame the Clippers for making a farce of the whole thing and leave?
     
    #43 JuanValdez, Jun 20, 2013
  4. Carl Herrera

    Carl Herrera Contributing Member

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    I've been thinking about how this situation differs from the fairly common-place practice of having a packaged player trade viewed as two (or more) separate trades for purposes like generating a trade exception. For example, when the Rockets traded Francis for McGrady, that deal was broken up into several components so that one of the teams would receive a trade exception for later use.

    I guess in this situation, either the rules specifically allow such a structure or perhaps it's OK because the same deal would have been OK as one combined deal in the first place, which cannot be said about the KG and Doc situation-- Clips and Celts could not have done that transaction as one deal because Doc is a coach.

    Also, lets say that a team has a $5M trade exception, and wants to use that exception plus a $6M player to trade for a $4M player and a $7M player. You cannot combine the $6M salary with the exception to make one combined deal. But does this mean that you also cannot simply structure the deal as $5M exception (plus maybe a pick) for the $4M player and the $6M player for the $7M player?
     
    #44 Carl Herrera, Jun 20, 2013
  5. REEKO_HTOWN

    REEKO_HTOWN I'm Rich Biiiiaaatch!

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    He was a crappy coach for years without KG and Allen and now he thinks he's a HOF coach? What a coach. I hope the Clippers get him.
     
    #45 REEKO_HTOWN, Jun 20, 2013
  6. J.R.

    J.R. Member

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    <blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p>Stern on getting around NBA rules by breaking it up into separate transactions: &quot;If you think [that] ... I have a bridge to sell you&quot;</p>&mdash; Ramona Shelburne (@ramonashelburne) <a href="https://twitter.com/ramonashelburne/statuses/347771975378272256">June 20, 2013</a></blockquote>
    <script async src="//platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>
    <blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p>NBA commish David Stern on Stephen A. Smith radio show about the deal:&quot;I would say in the language of diplomacy that the teams are: cont:</p>&mdash; Brad Turner (@BA_Turner) <a href="https://twitter.com/BA_Turner/statuses/347772521858359296">June 20, 2013</a></blockquote>
    <script async src="//platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>
    <blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p>DST cont: &quot;aware that the collective bargaining agreement doesn’t authorize trades involving coaches contracts.&quot;</p>&mdash; Brad Turner (@BA_Turner) <a href="https://twitter.com/BA_Turner/statuses/347772658311626752">June 20, 2013</a></blockquote>
    <script async src="//platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>
    <blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p>&quot;The only consideration that can be done here in players transactions are other players, draft picks and a very limited amount of cash.&quot;</p>&mdash; Brad Turner (@BA_Turner) <a href="https://twitter.com/BA_Turner/statuses/347772877640183808">June 20, 2013</a></blockquote>
    <script async src="//platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>
    <blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p>&quot;But, coaches contacts don’t qualify as extra consideration or acceptable consideration in player transactions. The teams know that.&quot;</p>&mdash; Brad Turner (@BA_Turner) <a href="https://twitter.com/BA_Turner/statuses/347773094808649729">June 20, 2013</a></blockquote>
    <script async src="//platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>
    <blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p>&quot;it has been confirmed to them. What we wouldn’t prohibit..what the rules wouldn’t prohibit.Let me start again.what the rules won’t allow&quot;</p>&mdash; Brad Turner (@BA_Turner) <a href="https://twitter.com/BA_Turner/statuses/347773547525046272">June 20, 2013</a></blockquote>
    <script async src="//platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>
     
    #46 J.R., Jun 20, 2013
  7. conundrum

    conundrum Rookie

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    Why, you can see the writing on the wall. He has been rumored to retire for the last few years and has come back to give it another run. Yeah he was an average coach before going to the Celtics but what had any of those players won before Doc? Would the Celts not can him if he was doing a crappy job? Celtics need to rebuild and Doc knows its time to move on.
     
    #47 conundrum, Jun 20, 2013
  8. Carl Herrera

    Carl Herrera Contributing Member

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    I think it is fairly obvious that this is a "packaged deal."

    First, it's been reported many times that Garnett only wants to play with Doc. KG wasn't gonna waive his no trade clause unless Doc is already there.

    Second, and perhaps more obviously, is that the way this is negotiated makes it clear that the parties view it as one deal. Remember that, at the beginning, the Celtics asked for 1) Jordan+Bledsoe for KG with 2) a draft pick for Doc (no player, including Bledsoe, could have been allocated to the Doc part of the deal because it cannot be a "trade"). Now the deal is 1) Jordan for KG with 2) two draft picks for Doc.

    It seems pretty clear that the sides moving assets from one part of the deal to another-- Celts take less for KG in exchange for getting more for Doc.


    Not sure how they are trying to "restructure" this to satisfy the league.
     
    #48 Carl Herrera, Jun 20, 2013
  9. Sanity2disChaos

    Sanity2disChaos Member

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    Easy call...Rivers.
     
    #49 Sanity2disChaos, Jun 20, 2013
  10. dobro1229

    dobro1229 Contributing Member

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    I dont know how they "prove" that these two transactions are 1 in the same. I mean, doesn't every transaction have a cause and effect.

    If the Bulls traded Michael Jordan back in the 90's to the Rockets, you think Phil Jackson wouldn't think about coaching the Rockets instead if there was a coaching vacancy there and he could get out of his contract?

    The problem both teams have is that its been highly reported that Doc is involved in these talks... therefore they are putting the NBA in an akward position. If these teams were smart enough to separate the two transactions by a few weeks, the NBA wouldn't be able to pursue any CBA rule break.

    Going to the NBA for approval at this junction was just stupid to begin with. Its almost as if the Clippers dont even want this to get approved.... hmmmmm....
     
    #50 dobro1229, Jun 20, 2013
  11. J.R.

    J.R. Member

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    <blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p>Bingo RT <a href="https://twitter.com/LarryCoon">@LarryCoon</a>: What matters is whether CP3 thinks that. RT <a href="https://twitter.com/kpelton">@kpelton</a> I don't think there's much difference between Doc &amp; Lionel Hollins</p>&mdash; Baxter Holmes (@BaxterHolmes) <a href="https://twitter.com/BaxterHolmes/statuses/347777796170452992">June 20, 2013</a></blockquote>
    <script async src="//platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>
    <blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p>How does this all play out? One league source said he expects Doc Rivers to be coaching the Celtics next season.</p>&mdash; Baxter Holmes (@BaxterHolmes) <a href="https://twitter.com/BaxterHolmes/statuses/347778718032347136">June 20, 2013</a></blockquote>
    <script async src="//platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>
    <blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p>As we reported, a source close to Rivers said, &quot;Doc wants to coach.&quot; It's C's or Clips -- and the latter option is fading.</p>&mdash; Baxter Holmes (@BaxterHolmes) <a href="https://twitter.com/BaxterHolmes/statuses/347779315888435201">June 20, 2013</a></blockquote>
    <script async src="//platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>
    <blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p>Have heard this from many fans lately. RT <a href="https://twitter.com/Onlyinspace">@Onlyinspace</a>: <a href="https://twitter.com/BaxterHolmes">@BaxterHolmes</a> We don't want him now, he can go to the Clips.</p>&mdash; Baxter Holmes (@BaxterHolmes) <a href="https://twitter.com/BaxterHolmes/statuses/347779943532490752">June 20, 2013</a></blockquote>
    <script async src="//platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>
     
    #51 J.R., Jun 20, 2013
    Last edited: Jun 20, 2013
  12. basketballholic

    basketballholic Member

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    Then according to Stern:

    One transaction:
    Deandre and 2 picks for KG.

    Boston then lets Doc out of his contract. That's not a transaction.
     
    #52 basketballholic, Jun 20, 2013
  13. heypartner

    heypartner Contributing Member

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    You are in complete denial, and reaching with your own definitions at this point. Stern said the very opposite. Releasing Rivers from his contract is quid pro quo to the trade. That's not allowed no matter when it occurs as contingency to the trade.

    give up. Your question has been answered by commish on behalf of the lawyers and owners who wrote the CBA.

    You're just trolling now.
     
    #53 heypartner, Jun 20, 2013
  14. The Cat

    The Cat Contributing Member

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    If the humble pie is too much for him, he'll just come back in a few months with a new screen name, like the last time. :)
     
    #54 The Cat, Jun 20, 2013
  15. justtxyank

    justtxyank Contributing Member

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    So no on the humble pie?
     
    #55 justtxyank, Jun 20, 2013
  16. Sooner423

    Sooner423 Contributing Member

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    I went to college with this guy. It's weird to see him pop up on here. Guy's a God-awful bball player.
     
    #56 Sooner423, Jun 20, 2013
  17. basketballholic

    basketballholic Member

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    Yeah I'm in complete denial. I don't believe the league can prevent this transaction from happening without major ramifications. This is the league office circumventing the CBA themselves. If this is where they are going regarding transactions it's overreaching. It will be a huge problem in the league going forward.
     
    #57 basketballholic, Jun 20, 2013
  18. J.R.

    J.R. Member

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    <blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p>There have been complaints about this deal from around the league since details became public. It's David Stern's job to uphold the rules</p>&mdash; Ramona Shelburne (@ramonashelburne) <a href="https://twitter.com/ramonashelburne/statuses/347780782330347520">June 20, 2013</a></blockquote>
    <script async src="//platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>
    <blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p>That doesn't mean deal can't be re-worked. But Stern has to demonstrate league takes this stuff seriously. Stay tuned.</p>&mdash; Ramona Shelburne (@ramonashelburne) <a href="https://twitter.com/ramonashelburne/statuses/347781181015724032">June 20, 2013</a></blockquote>
    <script async src="//platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>
     
    #58 J.R., Jun 20, 2013
  19. dobro1229

    dobro1229 Contributing Member

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    I think we've all seen first hand that Stern can pretty much make whatever decision he wants to in this case. There is evidence both ways to either deny or approve these transactions... all of them if they deem the DJ/KG trade as connected.

    What we know now is that the Doc Rivers transaction seems to be in clear violation of the CBA, and will probably not be permitted along with this KG/DJ trade.

    However, I dont see what will stop them from waiting a week and then negotiating a buyout/release of Doc's contract with the Celtics. I dont really know what Stern could do in that case.

    In the end, Im sure they will find some way to let go of Doc if they wanted to. That's probably why you will see them re-work this trade right now, and wait on Doc/Celtics to part ways at a later date.

    Hell, is David Stern we are talking about though. Who knows what kind of weight he can pull here to shut this thing down.
     
    #59 dobro1229, Jun 20, 2013
  20. basketballholic

    basketballholic Member

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    But...you've got to understand the bigger picture. The teams have already talked to Stern, just like I said they would, and they know what they have to do to make the transaction work.
     
    #60 basketballholic, Jun 20, 2013
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