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Clemens watch

Discussion in 'Houston Astros' started by NJRocket, Apr 23, 2007.

  1. MadMax

    MadMax Contributing Member

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    exactly right. they were after Garland while Andy was still telling them he wasn't sure if he'd pitch at all. they couldn't do nothing. Andy got his feelings hurt and left. the Astros made the deal for Jennings.

    i like a younger jennings over one more year of andy.
     
  2. Nick

    Nick Contributing Member

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    What's funny is that the same people complaining about the trade were the SAME people who criticized Pupurra/Drayton for letting Beltran hold them hostage, and not have a viable plan B.

    This time, they had a great plan B to Pettite... and people here are criticizing them for not staying the course with the young prospects, and trading for a guy who's thrown 200 innings nearly every year of his career.
     
  3. MiniMing

    MiniMing Rookie

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    How is it negative?

    Obviously everyone knows it's between Houston and New York, and I'd say he would go with the team who will offer more money and who has a better chance of going to the World Series.

    The Yankees will do both.

    Andy is there, Torre is there, a lot of the players he has won Championships with.. are there.

    I think this time around, which will probaly be his last time, he will go to the better team instead of just wanting to be closer to home.

    New York, Champions, retire for good. His gameplan.
     
  4. MadMax

    MadMax Contributing Member

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    this NY team is going to struggle to make the playoffs.

    i agree with you they are a better team than the Astros. but given the division and league they play in, i think it's more likely the Astros can beat out the Brewers than the Yanks make the playoffs. the Red Sox are the class of that division...and the AL Central has 3 teams you gotta fight for the Wild Card.
     
  5. justtxyank

    justtxyank Contributing Member

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    I wouldn't be so sure about that just yet. In my preseason picks I waffled back and forth on who would win the AL East quite a few times. I know the Yankees are looking bad right now, but they have been hammered by fluke injuries. Now they've got the best pitching prospect in baseball up on the big league team and their starters are coming back. I'm not convinced that the Red Sox are a better team.

    The Yankees did beat up the top three pitchers of Boston in that series. They got swept because they themselves had scrub rookies out there and a depleted bullpen.
     
  6. MadMax

    MadMax Contributing Member

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    i didn't figure you would think the red sox are the better team. i think they are.
     
  7. SamCassell

    SamCassell Contributing Member

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    I think Clemens wants the playoffs first... but if he views the Astros/Yankees playoff chances as a push, then he might go Yanks for the added run support in his starts. I think he'd love to pick up a few more wins before he hangs his pitching spikes up for the final time. 23 more wins over the next 2 seasons would put him ahead of Warren Spahn into 5th place all-time (he's 9th currently) and put him out of reach out Maddux catching him among current pitchers. I think that's possible as a Yankee, even playing half-seasons, but less likely as a Stro.
     
  8. justtxyank

    justtxyank Contributing Member

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    I didn't say I didn't think they were. I'm not ready to say which team is better.
     
  9. MadMax

    MadMax Contributing Member

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    i agree with that.
     
  10. MadMax

    MadMax Contributing Member

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    i didn't say what you didn't hear me think i said. ;)
     
  11. justtxyank

    justtxyank Contributing Member

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    Winning 23 games in two half seasons would be really hard. In the American League it would be nearly impossible imo.
     
  12. SamCassell

    SamCassell Contributing Member

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    This AL/NL disparity is overrated, imo. Pettite's got a 1.78 ERA in his move back to the "superior" league. Roger would still get plenty of starts versus the D-Rays and Orioles. Last year he won 7 in 19 starts, but easily could have won 12 or 13 with better run support. Barry Zito is doing about the same in the NL as he did in the AL. The rookie Liriano won 12 in 16 starts last year.

    Not to say that it's probable, but it's a possibility, especially if he pitches the way he has the last 3 years.
     
  13. justtxyank

    justtxyank Contributing Member

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    The disparity is overrated? The pitchers themselves acknowledge that it's harder.

    Pettitte's era is that low because it's still early. By the end of the season his era will be somewhere between 3.7-4.5.
     
  14. SamCassell

    SamCassell Contributing Member

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    "The pitchers"? All of them? Of course it's harder to pitch there, there is a DH. No automatic out every 9th batter. But that doesn't mean that it's harder to win a games in the AL - your team is putting up more runs, too. Especially the Yankees. Look at the NL last season - nobody won more than 16. The AL had 7 pitchers win more than that, including Randy Johnson and his 5.0 ERA. It's not harder to win in the AL, there are just more runs scored on both sides.
     
  15. MadMax

    MadMax Contributing Member

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    interesting way of putting it. i had never thought of that before. don't know why.
     
  16. toby

    toby Member

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    I might be wrong on this . . .

    but couldn't it be possibly that the AL has more, better hitting teams but also has more, crappy teams. The NL seems to be a bit more even from top to bottom. Racking up a ton of wins might be easier in the AL cause of some bad competition (even though the top teams are quite good).

    Again, i could be waaay off base and i haven't looked at numbers . . . just a thought
     
  17. justtxyank

    justtxyank Contributing Member

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    I think the worst teams in the AL team are pretty similar to the worst teams in the NL. They probably have better offense because of the DH and stuff, but pitching wise, they are just as bad. I think the big difference is that the National League lacks "elite" teams. Because of this, the best National League teams are like second tier American league teams.
     
  18. Major

    Major Member

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    Absolutely. It helps ERAs to move to the NL, but the total number of wins awarded is the same, and its distributed amongst the same number of pitchers. The only thing that might make it a bit more difficult in the AL is that with the DH, there is more run scoring, so more opportunities for bullpens to blow leads late and thus result in no-decisions for starters. I'd be curious to see the % of decisions that go to starters vs. relievers in the AL and NL.
     
  19. SamCassell

    SamCassell Contributing Member

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    I bet it is similar. You're right on the scoring, but also take into account the possibility that a NL team whose starter is pitching well but losing, or tied, in a low-scoring game might opt to pinch hit, taking him out earlier than he would have left in an AL contest and depriving him of the opportunity for a W.
     
  20. toby

    toby Member

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    good call . . . this train of thought makes tons of sense!
     

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