1. Welcome! Please take a few seconds to create your free account to post threads, make some friends, remove a few ads while surfing and much more. ClutchFans has been bringing fans together to talk Houston Sports since 1996. Join us!

Citizens United will destroy America

Discussion in 'BBS Hangout: Debate & Discussion' started by mc mark, May 30, 2012.

  1. Hightop

    Hightop Member

    Joined:
    Oct 15, 2011
    Messages:
    1,257
    Likes Received:
    68
    Prohibition doesn't work. Statists will never learn.

    At the same time the I hear about "electabilty" and "playing the game" when it comes to elections. More liberal hypocrisy and doublestalk.
     
  2. B-Bob

    B-Bob "94-year-old self-described dreamer"

    Joined:
    Jul 26, 2002
    Messages:
    34,709
    Likes Received:
    33,750
    for real though, they are kind of sad and embarrassing in any font. Sorry. :(
     
  3. glynch

    glynch Contributing Member

    Joined:
    Dec 1, 2000
    Messages:
    17,790
    Likes Received:
    3,395
    So, thumbs you think billions spent are good and "free" speech?

    As an aside you need to get beyond false equivalency. Who started the superpac arms race first?

    I would rather see Obama denounce the superpacs and run without their money. Last I saw 95% of Romney's pac money was from contributions of $1 million or more?

    The first Democrat-- and it will have to be a Democrat-- who does that will be the next great president in US history. It might take a loss or two, but as Americans suffer more from the rule of the rich, the spin won't hold.

    As an aside do you believe in man made climate change? After all a handful of scientists say "no", tens of thousands say "yes". Do you apply spurrious equivalency on this isssue?

    Also do you feel duped knowing that the Kochs and a small group of ultra-rich guys turned the Tea Party into a GOP front group?
     
    1 person likes this.
  4. geeimsobored

    geeimsobored Contributing Member

    Joined:
    Aug 20, 2005
    Messages:
    8,873
    Likes Received:
    3,165
    When SuperPac donations are subject to FEC regulations regarding contribution limits and reporting guidelines, then you can continue this silly line of thought.

    But seeing as how you have people like Karl Rove peddling Crossroads GPS as a tax exempt haven for unlimited corporate political donations, I dont see how you can pretend that Romney's SuperPac money are the same as Obama's money that is capped at $2500 per person.

    One candidate is clearly raising money the way it was intended to be raised by doing so through an accountable structure that regulates contribution amounts and requires proper disclosure. The other is running a terrible fundraising operation that is supported by a flurry of unregulated money from billionaires through shadow PACs that are theoretically "not cooperating" with the Romney campaign.

    if you cant see the difference you're crazy.
     
    1 person likes this.
  5. CrazyDave

    CrazyDave Contributing Member

    Joined:
    Nov 21, 2002
    Messages:
    6,027
    Likes Received:
    439
    fify.
     
  6. bmb4516

    bmb4516 Member

    Joined:
    Jun 29, 2006
    Messages:
    303
    Likes Received:
    28
    Don't worry thumbs, these guys are just cranky that the unions and media that are in the pocket of President Obama don't have a monopoly on total campaign control anymore.
     
  7. Major

    Major Member

    Joined:
    Jun 28, 1999
    Messages:
    41,416
    Likes Received:
    15,852
    Odd, given that McCain - and many of the Republicans that got hurt in the primaries - are amongst the biggest critics of Citizens United. But hey, if it makes you feel better to just complain about those evil liberals, feel free.
     
  8. Kojirou

    Kojirou Member

    Joined:
    Feb 18, 2009
    Messages:
    6,180
    Likes Received:
    281
    And who gets to decide what qualifies as a campaign or not under your system?

    Spending money is free speech. That, the Supreme Court determined over forty years ago, and it's inherently obvious. Otherwise, the US government could tell the New York Times "You can print all the newspaper you want, you can't just spend money to do so."

    Rant about free speech, and then support banning a video on Hillary Clinton ( which is what Citizens United was actually about) and discuss reimplementing the Fairness Doctrine.
     
  9. mc mark

    mc mark Contributing Member

    Joined:
    Aug 31, 1999
    Messages:
    26,195
    Likes Received:
    468
    You're so right bmb4516!

    unions and (the lamestream) media ≠ corporations and billionaires
     
  10. thumbs

    thumbs Contributing Member

    Joined:
    Apr 11, 2002
    Messages:
    10,225
    Likes Received:
    237
    Actually, I am not a fan of superpacs. I actually lean more to the thadeus camp of donations/spending. Unfortunately, there is no realistic way to stop this form of arms race. I just like to hold up a mirror to those who whine about being fouled when they commit the same fouls.
     
  11. cml750

    cml750 Member

    Joined:
    Jun 14, 2002
    Messages:
    5,882
    Likes Received:
    3,515
    I have no problem with taking industry funded PAC's out of politics if ALL groups are taken out like unions, all the Soros funded groups, etc.... If all political donations had to come from individuals with a cap of say $20, $50, $100 or some reasonable amount I would support it. If corporations can't spend money to influence elections then no group should be allowed to do it.
     
  12. mc mark

    mc mark Contributing Member

    Joined:
    Aug 31, 1999
    Messages:
    26,195
    Likes Received:
    468
    False equivalency is false
     
  13. mc mark

    mc mark Contributing Member

    Joined:
    Aug 31, 1999
    Messages:
    26,195
    Likes Received:
    468
    I agree with this somewhat, but I have to ask, can you name one " Soros funded group"?

    Since 2000 Soros has donated around $450,000 to various democratic organizations. By contrast we have one knucklehead who gave Newt $20 million dollars for just this year's GOP primary.
     
    #33 mc mark, May 30, 2012
    Last edited: May 30, 2012
  14. Sweet Lou 4 2

    Sweet Lou 4 2 Contributing Member
    Supporting Member

    Joined:
    Dec 16, 2007
    Messages:
    37,717
    Likes Received:
    18,918
    non-productive scandals? You mean like the Halliburton scandal? Or Bush's admin misplacing $18 billion in Iraq? Or the WMD scandal? Or bushes Aids Tsar sleeping with prostitutes? Or drug use by the dept of the interior's mineral management service?

    Romney will have a lot more of those with his lazeee-faire approach. And yes, a flat tax that will kill consumer spending and/or gov't revenue. Because to balance the massive tax cut it would give the rich, you will have to replace that with an effective tax hike on everyone else.

    You must be one of Mitt Romney's Corporations.
     
  15. thumbs

    thumbs Contributing Member

    Joined:
    Apr 11, 2002
    Messages:
    10,225
    Likes Received:
    237
    Yes!

    A graduated flat tax with no shelters would indeed increase revenues immediately. A person who makes $1B would pay (say 30% top rate) $300M while the person making $30K (say 5% bottom rate) would pay $1.5K. People earning less than $30K would pay no tax at all. How many billionaires currently pay $300M in taxes? Heck, GE made $5B and paid no tax at all. On the other hand, about 50% of wage earners paid taxes at all. The current tax system is unfair, granted, but the spending similarly is out of control.
     
  16. Depressio

    Depressio Contributing Member

    Joined:
    Mar 3, 2009
    Messages:
    6,416
    Likes Received:
    366
    Interestingly, 80% of all money raised by SuperPACs are going to Republican candidates.

    http://www.npr.org/2012/05/26/15378...g-the-race-a-billionaires-game?sc=ipad&f=1001

    You can say for every yin, there is a yang, but that's simply not true when it comes to the SuperPACs.
     
  17. rhadamanthus

    rhadamanthus Contributing Member

    Joined:
    Nov 20, 2002
    Messages:
    14,304
    Likes Received:
    596
    Well, obviously, your source is no longer credible then, per thumbs' criteria.
     
  18. thumbs

    thumbs Contributing Member

    Joined:
    Apr 11, 2002
    Messages:
    10,225
    Likes Received:
    237
    NPR? You are correct.
     
  19. Depressio

    Depressio Contributing Member

    Joined:
    Mar 3, 2009
    Messages:
    6,416
    Likes Received:
    366
    Fingers in ears... LA LA LA LA LA LA LA.
     
  20. Major

    Major Member

    Joined:
    Jun 28, 1999
    Messages:
    41,416
    Likes Received:
    15,852
    Umm, sorry to bust your bubble, but if you have a tax with rates ranging from 5% to 30%, that's not a flat tax by any definition of the word. That's a progressive tax - all you've done is take out the deductions.
     

Share This Page

  • About ClutchFans

    Since 1996, ClutchFans has been loud and proud covering the Houston Rockets, helping set an industry standard for team fan sites. The forums have been a home for Houston sports fans as well as basketball fanatics around the globe.

  • Support ClutchFans!

    If you find that ClutchFans is a valuable resource for you, please consider becoming a Supporting Member. Supporting Members can upload photos and attachments directly to their posts, customize their user title and more. Gold Supporters see zero ads!


    Upgrade Now