Chuck is definitely a good rebounder and a capable defender. He will be a staple of Van Gundy's defensive lineup; however, we can't overlook the fact that he is a rather bad finisher on offense. Hayes has blown more than a few layups--he's blown a LOT so far. He's a good passer and moves well without the ball, but the guy is not going to collect many garbage points. Maybe this is something that can be worked on, but then again, Ryan Bowen should be able to hit an open jumper. Some guys are just bad when they lift the ball past their shoulders.
i would'nt say he's missed a lot so far. sure it's a weakness of his. finishing around the basket for an undersized F/C isn't easy. it just takes some trial and error until he gets the feel for it. this is a guy that works on his game all offseason. he has definitely improved from last year to now. and since he know's his coach, he worked on post defence and rebounding. maybe next summer he will work a little on offense.
Hey, I'm glad he's on the team. We need him. But the layups are a really frustrating part of his game.
Hayes was a pretty good shot blocker in college. I think he's probably close to average for a PF/C. You're making it seem like he has no shot blocking presence ... that's Juwan Howard. For all players who played at least 70% of their minutes last year either at PF or C (based on 82games.com data), here are some rebounding/defensive stats per 40 minutes compared to Chuck Hayes and Juwan Howard last year: Code: orb/40 drb/40 trb/40 blk/40 stl/40 PF/C 3.1 6.7 9.8 1.4 0.9 Hayes 5.0 8.4 13.4 1.0 1.9 Howard 2.6 5.8 8.4 0.1 0.8 More specifically, the block% for the PF/C pool of players last year was about 2.1%. For Hayes, it was 1.8%, and for Juwan it was 0.2%. If Hayes gets more minutes at center, I think his block rate could exceed that average. Again using the 82games.com data from last year, I find that for all players who played at 70% of minutes at PF or C, the fg% on inside shots was 60.4%. Hayes, specifically, shot 59.3%, and that's largely because a significant proportion of his inside shot attempts were tips which are generally low percentage shots. Howard, in contrast, shot 51.8% on inside shots. So, this notion that Hayes is particularly bad at converting inside doesn't hold. Here's a detailed listing: Code: player FGA %Ins InsFG% InsFGM InsFGA Al Harrington 1220 34% 0.598 248 415 Esteban Batista 80 85% 0.471 32 68 John Edwards 64 50% 0.531 17 32 John Thomas 7 86% 0.333 2 6 Zaza Pachulia 681 62% 0.533 225 422 Dwayne Jones 10 90% 0.444 4 9 Justin Reed 74 47% 0.486 17 35 Kendrick Perkins 266 78% 0.56 116 207 Mark Blount 380 41% 0.656 102 156 Michael Olowokandi 45 36% 0.813 13 16 Emeka Okafor 316 53% 0.577 97 167 Jake Voskuhl 261 23% 0.639 38 60 Lonny Baxter 32 66% 0.476 10 21 Melvin Ely 425 77% 0.559 183 327 Primoz Brezec 791 35% 0.654 181 277 Sean May 171 38% 0.569 37 65 Darius Songaila 491 38% 0.556 104 187 Luke Schenscher 26 73% 0.684 13 19 Malik Allen 247 24% 0.475 28 59 Othella Harrington 273 30% 0.566 46 82 Alan Henderson 91 90% 0.549 45 82 Anderson Varejao 150 74% 0.586 65 111 Drew Gooden 652 56% 0.588 215 365 Zendon Hamilton 13 77% 0.5 5 10 Zydrunas Ilgauskas 889 59% 0.589 309 525 D.J. Mbenga 60 43% 0.538 14 26 DeSagana Diop 154 68% 0.625 65 105 Dirk Nowitzki 1564 18% 0.593 167 282 Erick Dampier 347 89% 0.515 159 309 Francisco Elson 284 44% 0.661 83 125 Kenyon Martin 600 46% 0.625 173 276 Marcus Camby 649 37% 0.648 156 240 Antonio McDyess 560 26% 0.736 107 146 Ben Wallace 465 80% 0.58 216 372 Dale Davis 24 54% 0.538 7 13 Darko Milicic 33 42% 0.643 9 14 Jason Maxiell 54 39% 0.619 13 21 Rasheed Wallace 1067 16% 0.58 99 171 Adonal Foyle 300 76% 0.568 130 228 Andris Biedrins 185 86% 0.711 113 159 Chris Taft 38 66% 0.64 16 25 Ike Diogu 334 60% 0.628 126 200 Troy Murphy 838 34% 0.601 171 285 Zarko Cabarkapa 174 41% 0.577 41 71 Chuck Hayes 105 87% 0.593 54 91 Dikembe Mutombo 95 87% 0.602 50 83 Juwan Howard 859 32% 0.518 142 275 Lonny Baxter 72 72% 0.558 29 52 Stromile Swift 458 58% 0.594 158 266 Yao Ming 900 49% 0.661 292 441 David Harrison 294 60% 0.614 108 176 Jeff Foster 250 89% 0.599 133 223 Jermaine O'Neal 805 33% 0.664 176 266 Scot Pollard 154 49% 0.592 45 75 Boniface N'Dong 53 26% 0.643 9 14 Chris Kaman 706 68% 0.597 287 480 Chris Wilcox 168 58% 0.684 67 97 Elton Brand 1435 30% 0.654 282 431 Vin Baker 15 47% 0.429 3 7 Zeljko Rebraca 96 46% 0.659 29 44 Andrew Bynum 82 74% 0.443 27 61 Brian Cook 511 26% 0.609 81 133 Chris Mihm 459 61% 0.59 165 280 Kwame Brown 388 72% 0.61 170 279 Ronny Turiaf 30 67% 0.5 10 20 Brian Cardinal 111 22% 0.583 14 24 Hakim Warrick 228 56% 0.583 74 128 Jake Tsakalidis 165 76% 0.68 85 125 Lawrence Roberts 44 52% 0.609 14 23 Lorenzen Wright 406 55% 0.641 143 223 Pau Gasol 1194 52% 0.627 389 621 Alonzo Mourning 315 79% 0.692 172 249 Earl Barron 16 19% 0 0 3 Michael Doleac 88 31% 0.407 11 27 Shaquille O'Neal 800 76% 0.686 417 608 Andrew Bogut 606 79% 0.594 284 479 Dan Gadzuric 309 74% 0.646 148 229 Ervin Johnson 17 59% 0.5 5 10 Jamaal Magloire 615 80% 0.534 263 492 Joe Smith 305 39% 0.551 66 119 Eddie Griffin 370 32% 0.59 70 118 Kevin Garnett 1191 30% 0.672 240 357 Mark Blount 354 35% 0.624 77 124 Mark Madsen 66 77% 0.529 27 51 Michael Olowokandi 195 46% 0.567 51 90 Clifford Robinson 513 17% 0.573 50 87 Jason Collins 262 28% 0.446 33 73 Marc Jackson 148 40% 0.525 31 59 Nenad Krstic 881 53% 0.541 253 467 Scott Padgett 201 21% 0.429 18 42 Aaron Williams 157 59% 0.634 59 93 Brandon Bass 70 49% 0.559 19 34 Chris Andersen 98 83% 0.617 50 81 Jackson Vroman 66 74% 0.469 23 49 Marc Jackson 221 33% 0.603 44 73 Antonio Davis 159 53% 0.506 43 84 Eddy Curry 597 85% 0.638 324 507 Jackie Butler 215 69% 0.622 92 148 Jerome James 121 49% 0.678 40 59 Bo Outlaw 58 79% 0.652 30 46 Darko Milicic 201 46% 0.645 60 92 Dwight Howard 881 80% 0.6 423 705 Kelvin Cato 72 51% 0.622 23 37 Mario Kasun 69 83% 0.509 29 57 Pat Garrity 242 7% 0.5 8 17 Chris Webber 1422 40% 0.571 325 569 James Thomas 13 92% 0.5 6 12 Lee Nailon 80 36% 0.759 22 29 Michael Bradley 79 47% 0.541 20 37 Samuel Dalembert 369 59% 0.63 137 218 Shavlik Randolph 97 76% 0.527 39 74 Steven Hunter 291 85% 0.683 169 247 Amare Stoudemire 27 41% 0.545 6 11 Brian Grant 65 23% 0.6 9 15 Kurt Thomas 391 28% 0.633 69 109 Pat Burke 127 39% 0.68 34 50 Shawn Marion 1365 40% 0.748 408 546 Tim Thomas 246 25% 0.59 36 62 Brian Skinner 91 73% 0.545 36 66 Ha Seung-Jin 31 90% 0.643 18 28 Joel Przybilla 239 79% 0.626 118 189 Theo Ratliff 189 65% 0.664 82 123 Zach Randolph 1229 37% 0.539 245 455 Brad Miller 877 25% 0.627 137 219 Brian Skinner 69 75% 0.635 33 52 Corliss Williamson 103 51% 0.528 28 53 Shareef Abdur-Rahim 632 50% 0.637 201 316 Fabricio Oberto 93 53% 0.673 33 49 Nazr Mohammed 377 64% 0.575 139 241 Rasho Nesterovic 334 54% 0.637 115 180 Robert Horry 292 23% 0.485 33 67 Sean Marks 71 15% 0.727 8 11 Tim Duncan 1185 44% 0.648 338 521 Chris Wilcox 282 60% 0.719 122 169 Danny Fortson 51 76% 0.641 25 39 Johan Petro 300 60% 0.578 104 180 Mikki Moore 124 45% 0.607 34 56 Nick Collison 394 60% 0.645 152 236 Reggie Evans 173 71% 0.577 71 123 Vitaly Potapenko 64 63% 0.6 24 40 Aaron Williams 19 68% 0.769 10 13 Antonio Davis 31 61% 0.579 11 19 Chris Bosh 1087 38% 0.612 253 413 Loren Woods 59 73% 0.605 26 43 Rafael Araujo 145 59% 0.407 35 86 Carlos Boozer 399 50% 0.688 137 200 Greg Ostertag 124 77% 0.552 53 95 Jarron Collins 280 48% 0.594 80 134 Mehmet Okur 1128 29% 0.594 194 327 Robert Whaley 57 61% 0.514 18 35 Andray Blatche 67 31% 0.571 12 21 Brendan Haywood 432 71% 0.649 199 307 Calvin Booth 47 34% 0.625 10 16 Etan Thomas 246 70% 0.665 115 172 Michael Ruffin 77 84% 0.523 34 65 Tyson Chandler 283 82% 0.621 144 232 Reggie Evans 95 73% 0.522 36 69 Austin Croshere 285 26% 0.64 47 74 Antoine Walker 898 41% 0.533 196 368 P.J. Brown 583 30% 0.534 93 175 Channing Frye 640 36% 0.59 136 230 Tony Battie 552 37% 0.66 135 204 Robert Swift 241 57% 0.562 77 137 Pape Sow 123 73% 0.5 45 90 Mike Sweetney 444 62% 0.538 148 275 Donyell Marshall 671 29% 0.599 117 195 Raef LaFrentz 552 22% 0.487 59 121 Eduardo Najera 301 57% 0.532 91 172 Jared Jeffries 415 52% 0.62 134 216 Kenny Thomas 604 52% 0.656 206 314 Maurice Taylor 389 41% 0.636 101 159 Vladimir Radmanovic 384 21% 0.5 40 81 Al Jefferson 379 70% 0.577 153 265 Malik Rose 281 50% 0.482 68 141 Linas Kleiza 173 53% 0.599 55 92 David West 1036 36% 0.59 220 373 Wayne Simien 120 39% 0.574 27 47 Toni Kukoc 298 18% 0.519 28 54 Charlie Villanueva 940 42% 0.607 240 395 Ryan Gomes 355 52% 0.622 115 185 Travis Outlaw 368 21% 0.658 51 77 Bostjan Nachbar 124 22% 0.556 15 27 Matt Bonner 467 14% 0.561 37 65 Udonis Haslem 591 31% 0.719 132 183 Keith Van Horn 387 33% 0.563 72 128 Brian Scalabrine 193 19% 0.581 21 37 Marvin Williams 531 39% 0.604 125 207 Total 18261 30221 60.42%
Not only the blocks, but those stats don't count how many times the post up player gets the ball slapped out by Lil Chuckie before he even gets it up in shooting position. If you add those to blocks, Hayes is amongst the league leaders per 40. Hayes has great quick hands.
Hayes could play some backup 5/4 when we go with a quicker/smaller lineup. I don't think they'll list him as a 5 though..
Interesting. Thanks for the stats, durvasa. I guess my perception was biased due to the fact that Hayes' misses have been so glaring. I'm still not so sure I'd want to dish it off to him with the game on the line, but you've convinced me that he isn't as bad as I thought. I DO think he's deceptively good at blocks. Not great, but definitely good.
Chuck Hayes = Crowd Fav. He's gona see time at the C when we play teams like the Suns & Sonics. Other than that i hope by the end of the season he's gona become the first man off the bench for back up PF. Sorry Howard but its time for the youth to shine...
excluding last night, my perception of hayes is that he has been a very good finisher. i'm comfortable when he gets the ball around the basket. i've been saying it since the day we made the trade but hayes is so superior to swift it's not even funny. getting stromile off the team and freeing up minutes for chucky was one of the first good moves of the offseason. if hayes could hit a jumpshot at even a juwan howard clip, he'd be starting.
i love hayes, but unless we play a team with an awful center or a small center, he should play strictly PF and in rare cases SF.
Fortunately, there are A LOT of awful centers in the league ... particularly on the offensive end. How many good offensive centers are there? You could probably count them on one hand: Shaq Staudamire Ilgauskus ... er ... Brad Miller ... um ... Eddie Curry?
Camby's not too bad offensively. Okur and Brezec too. Mourning's still playing although limited minutes. Bosh plays center sometimes. Bogut should improve. D. Howard/Milicic too. don't forget Gasol and J. O'neal. and of course Duncan.
Pe Diehard rocket: "Steve Kerr is not in the NBA world. He's in his own little fantasy world where the Spurs are a dynasty and Greg Popovich is the modern-day Red Auerbach." Excellent comment - LMAO __________________
Bosh, Gasol, Jermaine O'neal and Duncan are all superior offensive players who I didn't mention. They are also all primarily PFs. I don't think Hayes should have much a problem guarding Camby, Okur, and Brezec. None of them are strong low post scorers. Dwight Howard, I think, will be very good next year. That was an ommission on my part. Still, I think on most nights we can get away with playing Hayes at center. It's not like we have many other options. Mutombo probably isn't going to play regularly. So unless we pick up a new player or Haryasz improves dramatically to earn himself a spot in the rotation, we're going to have to play Juwan or Hayes at backup center. If I had to choose one of them to guard the players you mention here, I'd definitely take Hayes.
