I know what you are saying about stats, but his are not overwhelming. They are just good career stats. Biggio is different than McGrady in several ways. He hit a major milestone, is top 5 in career doubles, and played in the World Series and several conference championships, among other things. Mcgrady has won nothing in the playoffs, and has not hit some magical milestone. Those 2 are not comparable on any level. Biggio is a sure-fire HOF. I only bring up the college career, because it does help a borderline players rep, regardless if it is supposed to or not. The image of their greatness is firmly entrenched in your head. Christian Laetner will always be remebered as a better player than he was in the NBA, because he was so dominant in college. He is not a borderline player for NBA HOF, but he was the first player that popped in my head for getting tons of credit for a college career. With so many skipping now or leaving after a year, the college career is kind of a lost art. Carmelo will always be looked back upon for his run at Syracuse and be held in a higher regard for it even though it was only for a year.
oh i know a lot of the things he has done. I wasn't straight up saying "he didn't deserve it". It's just a crazy statistic on its own. Back-to-back MVP winner has never averaged 20 points per game in any season
While Pujols has always been undeniably talented, he wasn't always ahead of his contemporaries' talent by such an impressive margin. His draft position (13th round, 402nd overall pick) speaks to that. At SOME point, he took a giant leap forward. Whether it was bolstered by PE's is certainly a possibility. Fwiw, I do think he used PE's. Players don't go into the MLB gunfight carrying a switchblade and come out victorious.
He put up big numbers in JUCO. He put up big numbers in HS. He has performed at every level. Players before the Steroid era had big numbers. Maybe its possible he's our Ruth/Mantle/Williams/Mays. Its impossible to know right now if he has ever done anything against the rules.
Exactly. Lots of players put up big juco numbers or big HS numbers but don't make successful MLB guys. That doesn't prove he wasn't juicing. And then again, sometimes people who don't put up the big numbers are on steroids or HGH, too. We won't really know, ever, about any of them, except the guys who got caught.
Sam/juicy: Have either of you heard a legitimate explanation as to why he slipped so far in the draft? We're not talking about some unknown player in SE Malaysia thay could be anything or nothing at all. And we aren't talking about 1970s where scouting wasn't at the level and expanse it is now. Something had to curb them away from Pujols.
You can't rely on the MLB draft to gauge how much talent a person has. Although you would think with higher picks you would be getting players with much more talent and a higher ceiling, but that isn't always the case in baseball. It's just so much harder to predict how a player will pan out compared to football and basketball Prime Examples Roy Oswalt-23rd round pick Cliff Lee-8th round pick Roger Clemens- Originaly drafted in the 12th round Baseball just involves so much development many players just can't handle it and drop out or become non-factors.
Sooooooo many people think the baseball draft works just like the football draft or the basketball draft. tsk, tsk.
http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/columns/story?columnist=crasnick_jerry&id=3423890 Should help answer some questions as to why he was drafted so late.
Sorry to blow you off, but you'd be surprised how many folks treat draft position in baseball logically the same way as they do the NFL and NBA drafts, and they are very, very different. Additionally, you see a lot of posts about trading draft picks and moving up and down in the draft -- things that betray how little people really understand the MLB draft. Regardless of how informative that statement seems to you, it's different. It just is.
Thank you for the more detailed explanation, msn. You're right that the two processes and dynamics of MLB v NBA draft are very different. MLBers have to extrapolate and, frankly, get lucky more than NBAers and have to do so for far more players. This doesn't even start to discuss the minor league systems and the delicacies and team philosophies in regard individual player development. One thing is for certain, though...if Albert were showing this kind of talent (alltime great, creme of the creme, legendary talent) pre-draft, he wouldn't have dropped so far. Oh, and if the Stros have any chance at all to acquire him, I'd be the first one cheer for him. Hell, maybe he can find that moonshot he hit off Lidge in the playoffs. I'm still not sure if that thing ever got found.
yeah, clearly you get it and I wrongfully lumped your question in with the other types of queries. mea culpa.
Hey, no prob. Although I don't post frequently here, I truly enjoy this forum. The Stros/Texans fan seems to have more cogent analysis and a better grasp of debate and, well, English grammar (sometimes even Latin!). It makes for a much more fluid read.
Another one was Mike Piazza, drafted in the last (62nd) round by the Dodgers as a favor to Tommy Lasorda, who was the Godfather to Piazza's brother.
