Chron: Keeping Rockets Bench Players Happy a Problem

Codell,

You are right in that KT CAN be a good passer and has demonstrated that in the last couple of years.

What is happening now is that he is becoming a "black hole" on offense, doing his dance/spin move etc. while his teammates simply stand around. Then he goes one-on-team and is getting the ball stripped more and more.

Don't know if it's coaching or selfish play, or both..........either way it's ugly!

D R

 

This is the problem with our team as a whole. Its contagious. Players like Mobley, Moochie and KT all feed off the leader, Francis. Thats our style of play, receiving a pass then going one on one. Thats why I think Francis deserves the criticism he gets. Hes the leader of our team and he needs to lead by example. Its not fair to critique KT, Mobes and Grand Master Dribbler when the best player on our team does it too.

 

Rockets2K,

Feigen did his very best to get some soap opera quotes, and he failed at it. Neither player gave him anything to write about. Sure, neither player gave the Cato, "I prefer to be a bench player," but that's not what we want to hear from them, anyhow.

Bench's and defense are proven to win titles. Arguably the 2 best teams in the league are also the deepest: Kings and Mavs.

It is Rudy job (and he is the very best at it) to make sure no one becomes a cancer. Wanting to start does not make you a cancer. What makes you a cancer is not doing what the coach asks, right? I do not see either Mo or KT not doing what the coach says. In fact, the last two games they both see eager to do very well and share the ball with each other when they come in together. Mo's presence with KT has allowed KT to draw small forwards and double teams, and he has hit Mo a couple of times for slams, from that. I also do not see them fighting each other for low post position. KT sent several entry passes to both Rice and Mo.

Rockets2K, Are you inventing things that are not there...just like Feigen tried to do and failed at it?

What this depth competition can do is make Mo and KT better, and make certain that Rice keeps hitting his shots and Griffin plays tough defense. If Rice and Griffin fail to do what they are supposed to do, you can yank them...just like Rudy yanked Griffin for not working againt Brand.

<b>This Depth will get us to playoffs</b>

Someone in this thread said that these guys need to know that the playoffs are our goal. Well, someone needs to tell Griffin that too, because when he disappears, he needs to be benched for Maurice. And when Rice is getting smoked on defense and not shooting, Kenny gets the minutes.

Depth like this is great on a Rudy team, and you guys (just like Feigen) are just expecting the worst. I am expecting depth to make everyone better. Please look for that, and quit expecting the worst. Quit saying the Mo and KT iso-ing on the wing means they are selfish...Rudy calls those plays. When they come in, I'm sure the game plan will be to attack the low post with both or the one who's having the better mismatch.

How does Mo saying to Feigen, "whatever" "I've never played from the bench before" or Kenny saying "I'm going to have to claim the 5th" sound like whining? Mo and KT are not whining...they want to play...want to compete. That's want you want, but they also know that if they say to a journalist, "I think I'm better than Griffin/Rice right now and should start," that could snowball. Only Cato doesn't want to start. If you don't want to start, you should be traded.

I don't understand how PF low post/high post plays makes a power forward selfish....it doesn't, and especially not off the bench. imo, we don't overdo it...KT did one game, but looks like he adjusted. When KT is against a SF, he'll get doubled and will pass, but he needs Mo to draw the opposing PF, because Griffin sure isn't.

Adjustments is what fighting for minutes can do...make you adjust. And they all need to fight...Griffin and Rice, too....especially Griffin and Rice, imo. Mo and KT both think they are better than Rice and Griffin, and we could soon find out that Mo and KT coming off the bench together is indeed better for the defense, scoring and motion. It's not like Griffin really knows how to help offensive flow.

<b>Depth makes the starters fight for minutes, too</b>

When Rice doesn't hit and Griffin gets pushed around, you will see Mo and KT come in and perform. That is a luxury. That is a good thing. We can also play 3 PFs when Yao is having trouble.

bottomline: This is what makes Rudy a great coach. He can make this work. Have faith, and quit being so accusatory and negative when Feigen's article couldn't even get them to break silence. It hasn't happened, yet. And it won't this season.

 

Aside from the attitude problems, I just feel that we have too many forwards on the team. Not that its a bad problem to have, but we are too deep. Trading Kenny would:

1) Help out with the Playing time other players would receive (Boki may even get into the game)

2) Give us a possible 1st round pick

3) Cause the Rockets roster to not have any free agents for next season. We wouldnt have to spend extra money on keeping KT here.

4) Get rid of any attitude problems KT may cause.

 

can someone explain to me who at the 3-4 spot deserves 30 minutes per game? I thought Griffin would be ready, but he is not...not with this bench.

It is very easy to give each of these guys ~25 mpg...and that's really all each of them deserves.

 

I agree with your statements about depth, but the problem is that we have no depth in our backcourt. I worry about Francis and Mobley breaking down after playing as relentlessly as they play for an entire season with heavy minutes.

I think MManal's suggestion is a very feasible one in that though we would truly miss Kenny if we lost his versatility, we need additional backcourt support. We cannot rely on Hawkins as a suitable starting backcourt player if Mobley or Francis is out.

I truly hope that kenny is not complaining about not starting, I truly like him as a player and love his abilities. But there are not many teams around the league in which he would start. Maybe an eastern team but no team with playoff hopes with the exception of LA or Orlando which has two all-stars and cap limitations.

 

heypee:


the best answer to give would have been...


"i'm willing to do whatever it takes to get the team to the playoffs. i'll contribute whatever rudy needs me to."

and i know you're aware that the reason people have a problem with kt's reaction is that it is easily assumed to be negative. at least motay's could have been taken as indifference. kt's...well...i don't see how it can be seen any other way.


as for the quality of depth and the significance of it, i think you preaching to the choir. almost everyone agrees that it takes depth to win in the nba. the question is whether our leaders (rudy and francis) can inspire cohesion within the corp. i personally am convinced kt needs to be on the first train out of houston. nothing personal...just business.

 

Exactly. Pleading the 5th is about the 2nd worst thing you can say. The worst would be, "I hate this situation, this team, Rudy, and life sucks".

 

HP,

The issue is not who DESERVES 25+ minutes, but who THINKS they deserve 25+ minutes.

Ideally, Rudy should go with whomever has the mismatch and is hot at the moment.

Everyone realizes how important and also how fragile chemistry can be.

The Rocks have their stars, now they need their role players.

KT is a great role player and a decent starter for some teams.

If he would accept his role great, if not.....see ya.

DaDakota

 

verse,

KT said "I'll take the 5th." The reason I have no problem with it is because I've seen him on video answer this question in camp...and it does not look like a big deal. He also said, "whatever...they'll do what they want to do." That is exactly what Maurice said.

Plus, if Feigen interpreted Kenny has being covertly pissed, why do he describe this whole article as both KT and Maurice. Obviously, Feigen has a much better chance to read between the lines here than you.

In fact, Feigen didn't really say either was pissed. He just made it seem like a soap opera that they could.

This is all classic soap opera stuff, because Rudy is the best at making sure this doesn't happen. <b>Until it happens...it HASN'T happened.</b> You cannot trade your best defensive 3/4 for a 3rd guard when Hawkins can play guard, based on some theory of players griping. That is just silly.

The Coach is only going to be practical and pragmatic...he is not going to trade based on theories. Why do you guys do this?? Be pragmatic. KT is a steal and an easy trade no matter what happens. You can trade him later. All I see right now, is a guy who is fighting and deserving every minute he gets, and a guy not overtly complaining. Be pragmatic...check your *theories* at the door. Besides, Maurice might never really want to be a backup over time. Especially when Griffin is not really outplaying him.

From what I've seen, Rice and Griffin are inconsistent. Make them work. Be honest and quick with the minutes. Pull the starters when our 1st quarter sucks. That is what Rudy can do with Mo and KT, and I'm sure they'll get into a flow. We've seen that already.

 

KT sounds like another Pippi.

 

What if he laughed when he said it? It is only the 2nd worst thing you can say when a court of law is (otherwise) making you answer the question. Your analogy does not hold water versus the live interviews I've seen between Kenny and Feigen.

I've seen Kenny laugh these questions off. When Feigen asked him about his contract in early October, Kenny said, "Don't ask me that." And laughed. Both Kenny and Feigen laughed. Then he went on to talk about how hard he was working.

theory and soap operas

quick: name me a cancer who plays this hard on defense and rebounding and get 42 minutes for it when the starter is sucking?

 

naive exaggeration

 

And I, too, was only saying it in a joking manner.

Now you can see why people jump to conclusions.

 

heypee:


i saw the training camp video. kt sounded - at the very least - a little ornery. of course, there was no "smoking gun" but i don't expect there to be. i'm just going off of what i saw.

i think feigen's just reporting what he sees/chooses. at the same time i believe he is looking/waiting for the "smoking gun". did they give it to him? no. bu is there reason to believe that it exists? sure.

it isn't just based on that, and you know it. it's based on

a) he more than likely will not be coming back next year (so we might as well get some value for him)

b) he does not appear to be happy about his role on the team

c) our lack of depth in the backcourt (hawk can play some 2, but no pg...mooch is the 6th man of the year...for the other team...we need an experienced backcourt hand...)

d) motay's surprisingly good play thus far (even with the recent *tweak* griff can play 25-30mpg; we could run cato/yao together at 4/5; and tmo can play some 4...besides we don't know the extent of motay's *tweak*)

that statement is so easily argued when the referenced coach is rudy t. he has admitted to "going with the gut feeling" many times over. how is that practical and/or pragmatic?

how much easier is it later? trade him to a team that might get limited time from him? is it really so much easier???

either way, how can you call for pragmaticism in one statement, then speculate on motay's feelings in the next statement? motay has, imo, been 100% team from day one. i've never heard contract or minute comments from him. never heard questions about some guy (griff) taking his minutes from him. never.

imo, motay will never be a problem on this team - for no other reason than he is one of our 2 legit low post threats (ming being the other).

....lunch beckons...i'll look for your response when i return....

 

HP, was KT justified last year whinning about starting?

 

Rudy just needs to go with the hot hand. He has the bench. Each team member needs to understand, if your not productive you may be on the bench. Its a good problem to have.

 

verse,

I'm not responding to all that. I'll stick to my points...thank you

Kenny is playing the best defense out there, and when paired with Maurice (who will draw the opposing PF that Eddie can't), his offense will fill a very nice role. Trading that guy for a 4th guard...it isn't really even a 3rd guard (since Hawkins can play SG) is foolish.

I think you are reading too much into that article based on its title...so please don't tell me "heypee, you know that" like I agree a problem exists. When considering the value of bench competition versus the potential of cancers....I don't believe the possibility of cancer is greater than the positive of healthy competition, and a player's coach having a plethora of lineups to choose from. Overall, I don't see it as a problem.

I don't believe I've seen anything more that Feigen trying to smoke out a problem.
As rocket red believes with me, <b>bench competition is more often a good problem to have, not a bad one.</b>

Doc Rocket and Clutch both also thought there was a problem, and Doc recanted in the Summer saying the Rox won't trade Kenny this summer. His last comment was that one of the PFs would be gone by January. We shall see whether Doc's source is trying to save face via further speculation. Based on my disappointment with Griffin's defense, and to a lessor extent Yao's defense (I expected MUCH more), I more than ever don't see this trade happening. Forget speculation whether it would help us; that's not my point. My point is that I just don't see Doc Rocket's trade materializing even if the Rockets are shopping Mo and KT.

There is no problem THIS year. There might be a negotiation problem this summer...but I'm not trading now based on speculation..especially when he is a restricted free agent....and puts out the most effort day in and day out.

I am too disappointed in Griffin's fundamental defense at power forward to pull a trade this season.

 

We have 4 starter material guys, Taylor, Griffin, Thomas, Rice, at the forward positions. That's 24 mpg each. What about Morris and Hawkins, not to mention Nachbar? Let's say the latter three combine to be one player's PT. That's 5 people sharing 96 min PT: < 20 min. each. Will they be happy with that?

 

"You cannot trade your best defensive 3/4 for a 3rd guard when Hawkins can play guard, based on some theory of players griping. That is just silly."


HP, you should know considering the amount of games that you watch that Rudy does not and is not going to run the show with Cuttino and Hawk in the backcourt. Either Steve or Moochie has to be on the floor at all times during the game otherwise the Rockets get destroyed by the other teams press or have huge trouble getting into the offense. During the preseason, Rudy experimented with Tito and Tierre running point and for stretches of time esp nearing the end of preseason, they would have huge trouble even getting the ball past half court. I remember instances where 4 straight times they would turn it over against the opponents press.

Due to Moochie's sucktitude, Rudy has had to continually increase Steve's minutes. I do not want Steve playing 42 MPG considering how hard he plays every minute out there, going after rebounds, going to the rack in the face of bigger players, etc. If Steve gets worn dorn and/or injured, this team is in HUGE trouble. The third guard spot is a GAPING hole and needs to be rectified soon. Not just any third guard will do, a steady veteran that can bring it up the court against pressure, distribute and shoot is what is needed.