Christian couple tortured and burned to death in Pakistan

The world (and Pakistanis themselves) would be better off had it never partitioned from India.

 

But then there would be too much Muslims for the Sikhs and Hindus to hate. There's already tension between Hindus and Sikhs with both going after the minority Muslims.

 

Let's take it a step further and say that things would be better under the British Raj

 

Sikhs are only 11.9% (and outnumbered even by Christians) vs Muslims 13.4%, according to the census. If you added the muslims of Pakistan (and Bangladesh), Hindus would still be the majority, but not by 80.5%. It would be an even more pluralistic society. Maybe not as shanti, but a sight better than Most Likely to Engage in Nuclear War.

 

Could it be any worse than it is now?

 

Pakistan is an absolute $hit show. I went once as a child but have no inclination of returning until some major changes happen. Having said that, the freedom of self-rule is worth the pain and suffering.

 

You might have a case that the British would be better off back in the Middle East, especially the Levant , but Pakistan and India with all their problems, are still democracies at least.

 

Is it really self-rule? Seems like they are trapped and held back by their ideology.

How is anyone's life except for some ruling families any better than under British rule?

 

^lol, advocating british colonialism, which is pretty much what ****ed over the region in the first place.

 

I would say it's been trapped and held back by lack of resources, poor education, dictator ruled nation for most of it's existence, and ongoing poor relations with India which result in all kinds of diversions from improvement of the nation.

 

WTF?

Where do live? Just curious since you think it is cool for people to be murdered based on accusations of being blasphemes.

 

1 instance where it didn't **** a region over is Hong Kong. Despite the British synthesizing and enhancing the opium that is. Those ppl are begging for British rule as we speak.

 

GO do it dude. No one is stopping you. No one cares.

 

Summary/ TL;DR: People in the West keep yearning for the days the savage Muslims were kept in check by the British or tyrants. This annoys me. The Muslim world was pretty secular until the Cold War. Authoritarian regimes which were anti-USSR and pro-USA replaced Soviet-friendly secular governments. Social injustices were perpetrated by America's allied tyrants. This turned people towards Islamic extremism which was helped by Saudi oil revenues and America's support of the mujahideen in Afghanistan.

Pakistan is a terrible place today. Yet, it wasn't always so. From 1947 to 1977, it was largely secular, relatively open, clean, and uncrowded, the state institutions worked quite well, etc. Then, General Zia-al-Haq came to power in 1977 via a coup d'état.

Pakistan's secularism died mostly because of US Cold War policy, and our myopia regarding the branches of Islam that furthered that narrow goal. This general hated the Soviets so he automatically became a darling of the Reagan administration in 1980. The previous prime minister, Bhutto, was executed very quickly in a rushed trial behind closed doors. It's open knowledge in the Pakistani intelligence community that America wanted Bhutto out for his communist sympathies. Pakistan's elites of industry hated Bhutto too for his love of the poor and socialism.

Zia-al-Haq was the one who began Pakistan's descent into Islamic extremism. The blasphemy laws, suspending democracy/parliament, corrupt/brutal police who were tasked to find Soviet supporters, the direct supervision and funding of the Afghan mujahideen, the very close ties to Saudi Arabia (Wahhabism), instituting Shariah law, dress codes for men and women, etc. These all arrived in the 1980s. The US only saw someone friendly to its interests without realizing this man was evil and a tyrant. The US didn't connect the dots that supporting the General increased social injustice.

Also CF, lose the imperialist attidute. So many conservatives and liberals on this forum speak condescendingly of the Pakistanis and others in the Muslim world. "We need a man with an iron fist and the right attitude to keep these savage, barbaric Muslims in line. We never should have interfered with this hornet's nest. At least these animals were kept under control underneath his rule."

What none of you understand living in the West: it's f*kcing annoying listening to someone living overseas telling you how your country should be run, whether your voice should count, and all social injustice be damned or ignored because that other country's interests are greater than your own. To analogize, it's like Turkey telling Germany would to do or Mexico ordering Obama around. Imagine the anger Germans or Republicans would feel especially if society were crumbling around them. People in Pakistan lost faith in the government when the General came into power and stayed there for a damn long time. The corruption, the torture, the disappearances, martial law, the suspension of democratic institutions, etc. People turned to religion, because the secularists looked weak versus the General. Saudi's version of Islam looked sexy and strong versus the effeminate secularism of the 60s and 70s.

This happened all over the Muslim World. Social injustice pissed people off so they turned elsewhere for leadership, narrative, ideas, culture, and vision. That alternate was Islamic extremism. If I showed y'all photographs of what Egypt, Iraq, Syria, Lebanon, Pakistan, Afghanistan, Turkey, and other places used to like you'd disbelieve. The clothing, the ideas, the tourists, the cleanliness, the lack of RPGs and facial beards, etc.

I could tell you about my family's experience living in India under British rule. However, it's a long story. To put it shortly, those of you championing Pakistan to give up her sovereignty have no idea how bad sectarian violence got between the Muslims, Sikhs, and Hindus in the centuries preceding British Partition. I too wish the Subcontinent were together. However, I loathe mob rule. I suggest y'all to visit India, and see firsthand what it feels like being a minority in a sea of over 1 billion people.

 

Agreed. Anyone can burn whatever holy texts including the Quran. God is far greater or should be to care one whit about any of this stuff. Even if this couple did it, they didn't deserve their fate. I hope, but won't hold my breath, that those responsible for this disgusting act are justly punished and made an example of.

 

my white hat sources tell me both white and black hats are joining to organize an off-the-charts DoS attack on Islamabad's main university to take it down and hold its internet access hostage until the students start rebelling against their country's arcane atrocities to humanity.

 

And you would of course not mention the religious ideology of Islam at all - even though the very reason for this lynch mob to murder this couple was Islam.

Your almost obsessive contortions to avoid acknowledging the reality that Islam is holding these people back are completely laughable.

 

Ummm... India has the 2nd largest muslim population in the world --- even more than Pakistan.

http://www.thecountriesof.com/top-10-countries-with-largest-muslim-population/

not sure what you hope to achieve by victimizing yourself. . it's a secular country where christian missionary friends of mine are living comfortably and happily. you keep bringing up incidents from half a century ago and acting like things haven't changed since then.

well, they have. everything it seems, except islam, has adapted and changed.

until you get it right, you absolutely will be told what to do and how to run your country. because right now it's a chaotic mess and you have only yourselves to blame. there's nothing wrong with being passionate about your country, but you sound like a kid talking back and saying how annoying it is that adults are telling him what to do; well son, until you make your own way and money then you better be prepared to hear it. Muslim world needs to get their act together and understand how to function as a society instead of this but allah said such and such 2000 years ago madness.

too many good people are dying.

 

Islamist Erdogan tries this a lot. Just a few days ago, the German ambassador in Turkey was summoned because of some caricature in some book in Germany which Erdogan didn't like.

This sounds like a lot of excuses. It sounds a lot like all the explanations of why Germans turned to Hitler and Nazism. (Versailles treaty, etc. etc. etc.)

I have seen the pictures. And what has changed these countries for the worse in the last decades? Islam. Nothing else.

There IS mob rule under Islam. The tragic event reported in the OP is a perfect example of it.