I like both of them. We would be very lucky to get one of them, then we can build the team with one of them as the core for next five years. Right now, we have too many good players, but in the playoff, you can only play eight players, great players determine the win or lose, just look at Oklahoma.
Paul is CLEARLY the better player. However, I would much rather upgrade at SF. PG anf PF might be the 2 strongest positions on the team. You are not gonna get much more production out of the power forward position than what scola did after the all star break and brooks is only getting better. Bosh is not a guy that can be built around, his entire career has proven that. He might be fine on a team like the rockets because there are more options and he would not always be the #1 guy, but I still think he is very overrated
You've said this a few times.. I just don't get it. When people talk about the free agent class, they say "LeBron, Wade, Bosh" -- left out of that is Amare, Boozer, Joe Johnson. Yet you seem to think Bosh isn't on the next tier.. agree to disagree. Bosh is most certainly an elite player and would make the Rockets an instant title contender (assuming we wouldn't have to gut our team, which, we wouldn't since Toronto would be lucky to get something back for him.) You're right, you never said that you don't need an elite player.. but you somehow think an elite player can fit into an offense where everyone shares the ball equally and screens for each other. Like I said, this isn't your kids basketball games.. that isn't the reality of the NBA. You need a star player, in isolation situations, that can either score or make others around him better. Brooks can create, but he's no where near the level of the guys we're talking about. Yao is a great offensive weapon, but his lack of mobility allows teams to take him out of the game / keep him from getting the last shot off. They can't do that with Bosh.
You could take that thought a step further and say, to win a championship, a teams needs either Kobe or Duncan.
But that's more to my point: you need a superstar. Who are the title contenders this year? Lakers (Kobe) Cavs (LeBron) Magic (Dwight) Nuggets (Melo) You don't get that far in the playoffs without a legitimate superstar. Is Yao that guy? I don't think so.. especially after the major surgery he just had. Yao is a great offensive weapon, but he's incapable of getting off his own shot in the closing seconds, due to his lack of mobility. You need someone that you can give the ball to with 10 seconds left and win the game for you. If you guys think Aaron Brooks is that guy, prepare to be stuck in mediocrity. Aaron Brooks should be our Sam Cassell / Kenny Smith -- hit the open shots and have the occasional big games. But when the game was on the line, neither Casell nor Kenny Smith had the ball in their hands -- Olajuwon did. We need an Olajuwon. We need Bosh.* *I don't mean to say Bosh = Olajuwon (greatest C ever), but he's an elite superstar who can and has made the last second shots.
I think you misinterpet what I am saying.......I want better players, and Bosh is better than Scola. However, if you have to give up say, Brooks for him, you are robbing Peter to pay Paul. And a team with Brooks and Scola is better than one with just Bosh.... In a system I favor, all 5 players are offensive threats, but that doesn't mean they get equal billing, the best players should have more plays called for them and the ball in their hands the most. But teamwork always beats individual play...think back at the finals history and how many big shots were hit by ancillary players, Paxson, Smith, Cassell, Horry, Kerr..etc..etc..etc..... The team is better when it's best player is a willing passer..... Again, I would be in favor of getting Bosh if it was like Ariza+ Scola...because we have players at those positions that are as good or better. To me, it is all about improving the team overall..... IMO, Brooks is nearly untouchable, because he is the ONLY player that can get his own shot......even Bosh can not do that. DD
Agree with all points you have made, but I do not think we can get Paul. Bosh is overrated, that is why we have a chance to get him, not Wade or James, but he would fit the team with Yao and Brooks very well. Also Scola would be traded for any good player if we have Bosh, plus that Bosh can play the center position for 20 plus min, that also is a key for team with the current Yao.
Classic case of overrating our players. Bosh will be a HOF one day.. Scola will be a good Euro player who came over. If the Raptors offered Bosh for Scola + Brooks, I'd be all over it. Fortunately, I don't think that will be possible as we have to re-sign Scola and I don't think we can SnT him to Toronto (because we'd need other contracts to add up to salary, and I don't think you can include contracts on top of a SnT in same deal). I agree that it's nice to have five offensive threats, but that isn't always the best strategy. If I have Kobe Bryant on my team, I care less about the offensive ability of my 5th man and more about what contributions he'll bring other than scoring. When you have big horses who can score (Bosh, Martin, Yao), the need for more scoring options diminishes but the need for defense always remains constant. Untouchable? How far are we going to overvalue our own guys? Guys like Chris Paul, LeBron James, Deron Williams are untouchable.. and you put Aaron Brooks in that category?? Not to mention, Morey has said that NOBODY on our roster is untouchable, so perhaps you should adjust your views to that of the teams to make your view a bit more realistic. And Bosh can most certainly get off his own shot.. I suggest you watch some more tape of him.
There aren't many, but so what? Does that mean we don't try to get one? The only way to get those guys is either through the draft or if you're lucky, FA (SnT). I'm talking about guys that can lead your team to a championship, like: LeBron James, Dwight Howard, Dwayne Wade, Chris Bosh, Kobe Bryant, Dirk, Melo, Deron Williams, Brandon Roy, Duncan, Durant, etc...
I wouldn't be displeased if Brooks were packaged in a trade for Bosh or if the Rockets decided they were to go the Pistons route.
I vote for Chris Paul, if we can keep Jordan Hill and Scola, but lose AB. I assume we would still have Hayes, if not Jeffries. That way, we still look good at 4/5. It really wouldn't surprise me, though, to see DM get us both. Now, Chris Paul, Chris Bosh, plus keeping the #14 pick, THAT would surprise me. Though not completely.
And that team loses more than it wins because it can not score the ball late, unless Bosh is going to be dribbling the ball up too. The best strategy is to KEEP your best players and add on to it, you do not win championships with large turnovers every year....look at Dallas for example. Well of course if you are going to be offering up those guys, but clearly you are not, and AB's skillset is desperately needed on a team that lacks players who can create for themselves as well as others....it is ESSENTIAL to winning. Thus my use of the word "NEARLY" untouchable....if you can get DWill or someone like him well then of course you trade him.... DD
That is insane. The guy has only achieved a single season above .500 in his entire career. He is clearly not a guy to build a franchise around. Those guys are Melo, Durant, Kobe, Wade, Lebron, Dwight, Deron, etc. If Bosh cannot even make the playoffs in the east, what makes you think him coming here would make us an instant contender if it costs the rockets their 2 best players from last season. To reiterate what DD has been saying Brooks AND Scola >> Bosh.
I would trade Scola for him in a S&T deal and include any of the following players. Lowry Trevor Shane Jeffries Andersen I would hold onto Martin, Brooks, Budinger and Hill above all others because their skillsets and contributions in relations to their small contracts makes them extremely valuable. The key is having a balanced roster.....and while I like Bosh, not at the expense of having no one that can create their own shot. DD
No way. Bosh will be a Hall of Famer. He's that good. The Raptors had a terrible season, so I understand the reason for caution. But Kobe missed the playoffs in 04-05 -- so what? Great players are sometimes on bad teams. Besides that, the only reason they missed the playoffs was because Bosh got hurt. The Raptors were a few games ahead of the Bulls when he went down, and they choked the lead away in the final weeks. I think you guys need to step back and understand we're talking about a 26 year old, 6'11 PF/C that averaged 24 points and 11 rebounds while shooting 52% from the field and 36% from downtown. Not to mention, he's an 80% free throw shooter. He's an absolute stud who could lead a team with the right system and players. In Adelman's system, I have to think he would be even better as he would be a passing threat out of the high post as well. Morey's toughest job will be selling Houston to Bosh, not trading for him. He'll give up who he needs to, to get the job done. That includes Brooks/Scola. Summary of what you just said: "I didn't watch the Raptors play much this season, but I assume they lost all their games because Bosh couldn't get off shots late in the game." I don't know what dribbling the ball up has to do with things. It's not like teams are pressing and they can't advance the ball or we have some PGs who are incapable of passing? You isolate Bosh on the wing and let him go to work. They can't front him because he's too athletic, and he's a threat to drive, shoot, or pass. He'd be our closer. I agree that it's tough to win with large turnover, but in order for you to build on something you have to have a solid foundation. That means a franchise player. Bosh is that franchise player that you build around and add to. I would love to implement your strategy, I just want us to have a better foundation. Think about our roster 1 - 5.. we're solid at every starting position. And yet.. I don't feel like we're championship contenders as is. Why? Because we don't have that one guy that can take his game to the next level. Ok then how about another - Chris Bosh? :grin: He was untouchable.. the Raptors refused to entertain offers for him last year because they hoped to re-sign him. Aaron Brooks was the primary option on a bad team.. he was good, but don't look at his numbers and think he's the next coming of Deron Williams. We need to understand our players ceilings (Landry, for example, was also vastly overrated) when thinking about these deals. I think the best we can hope for in Brooks is a Jason Terry like impact -- which I'd be all for. But the potential of Jason Terry isn't going to stop me from trading for a Hall of Famer in his prime. Maybe I'm crazy - who knows.
Yes, great players are sometimes on bad teams, but great players are never ALWAYS on bad teams. How can you call him an elite player when he can't win? Guys like Wade and Paul have had a couple bad season, but more often than not, they get their teams wins games. Bosh on the other hands loses MUCH more often than he wins. Elite players do not let that happen. Pau Gasol is an excellent PF, but there is no way you can tell me a legit team could be built around him, Bosh is the same way. How many HOFers compile only a single winning season in their careers?
Longhorn: Everyone likes Bosh, we are saying just don't give up the farm because you will be in the same position. Bosh is great but he is not capable of carrying a team.......he is on the 2nd tier of star players... Below Lebron, Wade, Kobe, Melo etc...etc...... DD
