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China is Running Circles Around the USA

Discussion in 'BBS Hangout: Debate & Discussion' started by glynch, May 18, 2015.

  1. Nook

    Nook Member

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    Your article is old, you didn't address any of the points. For almost 16 quarters Latin America has seen its economies get worse and the forecasts are not positive. Indeed, right now the majority of Latin America is in the worst financial situation they have seen in 20 years.

    No I am not backtracking on Latin America being the most dangerous region of the world. A number of institutes and studies conclude the same. 7 of the 10 most dangerous cities in the world are in Latin America.
     
  2. glynch

    glynch Contributing Member

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    Please give a link. Also exclude that we spend about 12% more of our GDP on healthcare and about 2% more of our gdp on defense than China.

    See link for health care and other expenditures per the world bank.
    http://data.worldbank.org/indicator/SH.XPD.TOTL.ZS

    The point was that we are not spending on infrastructure and other non useful-military expenditures.

    See this link on infrasturcture. http://www.politifact.com/ohio/stat...m-ryan-says-china-and-india-outspend-us-infr/
     
  3. Mr. Clutch

    Mr. Clutch Contributing Member

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    http://mecometer.com/whats/china/government-expenditure-percentage-of-gdp/

    So now infrastructure is the only thing we should spend government money on? Even over healthcare?

    It makes no sense to compare our infrastructure spending to a developing countries. Not saying we spend enough, just the comparison isnt valid.
     
  4. Mr. Clutch

    Mr. Clutch Contributing Member

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    Ok here are some hard facts on recent Latin American performance.

    Many Latin American economies will continue to face increasing growth divergence this year, which is neatly defined by the two oceans that envelop the region. The Atlantic-facing economies of Argentina, Brazil and Venezuela—the largest members of the Mercosur bloc—will contract 0.2%, 0.9%, 5.5%, respectively, according to LatinFocus Consensus Forecasts panelists. On the other side of the continent, Chile, Colombia, Mexico and Peru—which make up the Pacific Alliance—will expand 2.9%, 3.4%, 2.9% and 3.5%, respectively.

    In fact, the growth divergence is mainly the result of the substantial differences in each country’s economic policy during a decade-long economic boom, which was fuelled by high commodities prices and strong inflows of foreign direct investment. Throughout the boom years, Atlantic countries spent more and saved less, while the Pacific-facing countries invested more. Moreover, many governments in the Atlantic-facing countries implemented more interventionist economic policies, which put a dent in businesses’ profits and discouraged investment. Conversely, countries bordering the Pacific undertook agendas of economic reforms, which investors welcomed.

    http://www.focus-economics.com/regions/latin-america


    Yep, that's right. The Latin American countries that adopted liberal market (you don't need to put "neo" in front of it) policies are growing. The ones that didn't are contracting.
     
    #64 Mr. Clutch, May 20, 2015
    Last edited: May 20, 2015
  5. Buck Turgidson

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    [​IMG]
     
  6. glynch

    glynch Contributing Member

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    Actually good points. Sort of. As widely noted we essentially waste about 1/2 of our health care expenditures with and inefficient system whose principle reason seems to be profits for the ultrawealthy owners whose lobbyists carry the day.

    Yes, an undeveloped country needs more infrastructure spending, but why do we have the Philly to Washinton train and they have bullet trains linking their biggest few cities?
     
  7. Remii

    Remii Member

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    Only if China is willing to commit economic suicide for the US like Japan did... And I seriously doubt they would.
     
  8. Mr. Clutch

    Mr. Clutch Contributing Member

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    OK who are these "owners" getting wealthy off healthcare? It's doctors. I know its politically infeasible to attack doctors, but they're the ones making tons of money off healthcare.

    "But physician-owned hospitals have emerged as among the biggest winners under two programs in the health law.

    Physician-owned hospitals are less likely to face penalties for high readmission rates, because many do not take the heart failure and heart attack cases that Medicare analyzes when determining whether to levy a penalty. They also tend to have far fewer low-income patients, KHN’s analysis shows. It’s a population that is generally less able to buy medications, pursue follow-up appointments and find help while recuperating – problems that often send patients back to the hospital."

    http://khn.org/news/doctor-owned-hospitals-quality-bonuses/

    Also, government limits competition in healthcare that could drive prices down. Then you look at garbage like Dr. Oz and you have to think there is something seriously fishy here.

    As far as bullet trains in China: 1) how does this help the poor? Are they riding bullet trains all over the place? 2)there are many signs of overbuilding in China 3) it is not clear bullet trains are good or needed for the US, even though I personally would welcome them
     
  9. Mr. Clutch

    Mr. Clutch Contributing Member

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    When was this?
     
  10. Faust

    Faust Member

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    i read in the new york times that our infrastructure spending on just rail is way behind developed countries like france, australia, south korea. we spend $35/citizen and they all spend over $100/citizen. one of the reasons those people died in the train accident last week was not spending enough on rail. places like japan have trains for 200 mph and they have had zero ppl killed in over 50 years... also why isn't "it clear that bullet trains are good or needed" for our country?

    bullet trains are to rail what interstate highways with fast speed limits are to cars. a superpower needs a diverse infrastructure, that means car and trains and more. we don't have german autobaans here and we don't have japanese bullet trains. you need both.

    http://www.worldwatch.org/system/files/GlobalCompetitiveness-Rail.pdf

    http://www.nytimes.com/2015/05/21/w...globe-find-no-cheap-route-to-safety.html?_r=0
     
  11. Remii

    Remii Member

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    I can't remember the exact year but you can Google or YouTube Dr Michael Hudson... He discusses it and even makes the claim that the US already asked China to commit economic suicide like Japan did. You may find Max Keiser discussing it as well.
     
  12. Johndoe804

    Johndoe804 Member

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    Glynch is delusional. Political freedom and democracy in the US? Try and protest in Washington DC and see how much political freedom you have. Shake the waters enough and the IRS will mysteriously be after you. Democracy? Try aristocracy of the two parties. Is China really going around "making friends" with other countries? I don't think so. They're constantly launching cyber-attacks on the US, and they're essentially engaging in proxy economic warfare in Africa. Really friendly of them! Their roads and infrastructure is the envy of the world! But they're destroying their people and their environment to do it. And that isn't even to mention the silly trust of the government to maintain said infrastructure. Look how well that's gone in the states! Just being realistic here. That's the problem with all of these people who are swinging from the state's nuts. You don't think they can do any wrong. In fact, you blatantly ignore the repeated injustices of governments all over the world. If we polled this forum, you'd find that a vast majority of us are anti-fascists, but that's exactly the system we live in across the globe! Its silly, and your OP is totally delusional.
     
  13. Cohete Rojo

    Cohete Rojo Contributing Member

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    LOL. The Chinese will write the rules. What does such rhetoric mean? It's like he is trying to appeal to everyone that the US has the bigger dick than China, and that we have to prove it. Let the Chinese deal with Chinese problems; let Americans deal with American problems. Can anyone explain why "not" passing the TPP could be such a bad thing?

    <iframe width="854" height="510" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/A16Dptv_Nus" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>
     
  14. SamFisher

    SamFisher Contributing Member

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    Chinese running circles:

    <iframe width="640" height="360" src="http://www.liveleak.com/ll_embed?f=023126927c2c" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

    Your move, Obama.
     
  15. Mr. Clutch

    Mr. Clutch Contributing Member

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    Circles gonna circle
     
  16. SamFisher

    SamFisher Contributing Member

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    Sure, this is a direct reference to the China Development Bank episode that occurred earlier this year for an example as to why inaction/dillydallying on the part of the US (in large part, due to, surprise, congressional silliness has negative consequences.
     
  17. NotInMyHouse

    NotInMyHouse Contributing Member

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    You misinterpret. He is the lawn dart.
     
  18. glynch

    glynch Contributing Member

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    Frankly it could be an opportunity for the whole world if we don't hysterically try to continue total dominance of the world through increased militarism which is becoming our only totally dominant strength.
     
  19. glynch

    glynch Contributing Member

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    Agreed, we were very protective about our infant industries and stole what we would be called patents like crazy from Britain.

    Who knows once China becomes dominant or equal to the West maybe they will suddenly become a big believer in "free" market ideology and very long periods of patent protections and all the other beliefs that help the top dogs in the not so invisible hand..
     
  20. Mr. Clutch

    Mr. Clutch Contributing Member

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    What would be patents did we steal?

    China is already well along the path to free market ideology, sorry to break it to you. They haven't adopted IP protection yet because it isn't in their interest yet
     

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