[CBS Sports - Berger] Labor update as NBA heads for 'ugly' lockout

repped

 

I agree with most of this. Basically, small market teams have to overpay for 2nd and 3rd tier talent because they cant attract 1st tier talent. And when they are fortunate enough, to be bad long enough, to get a franchise player, they walk.

As far as teams making moronic choices, certainly idiocy shouldnt be rewarded. But if 22 teams are losing money, certainly this number eclipses the number of poorly run teams. I.E. some decent/well run teams are losing money also.

 

toronto may be a large market overall but its not a basketball market by any means thats all hockey country up there, if it was a large market you'd hear ppl clamoring all the time about wanting to go play in toronto..but so far we have heard only ONE player say that and then even he wanted out asap (Hedo)

Utah had the added bonus that Williams was still under contract for another season after this one for the Nets. If anything the Raptors should have traded Bosh in the 08-09 season to have gotten the same sort of yield utah got for williams. They did not and no team outside of Houston it seemed was willing to trade players/high draft picks for Bosh without an extension guarantee.

You can argue James had a terrible roster but many of the rosters moves were done to surround his skillset and with his approval. James teams won like what 60+ games in back to back seasons? A lot of that was because of james' skill but also because his teammates fit his skills as best as they could. Cleveland management made short sighted trades to appease James 'right now' and now are left with utter crap of players with large contracts and are old on a team that is now for the future. and despite all those issues the cavs werent the worse team in the league last year (darn near close to it of course) But considering that they lost the engine to their car for no players in return and then lost the heart of the team about less than 1/2 way through the season (varejao) they did better than expected. (but of course had low expectations)

as for taking "less" I haven't done the exact math of course but all 3 players took less but not significantly less because at least in James and Bosh's case they did the s&t which gave them the final big year (again wish both teams didnt agree to a sign and trade but as a business decision its best to get a pick or two rather than nothing) I believe over the life of their contracts James Wade and Bosh took 15 million less.

That large figure is a bit misleading in the case of Bosh and James since they will not be paying a state income tax now so they will have more disposable income back and of course all three will have their endorsement money go up and most players receive more per year via endorsements than they do from their playing contract.


Just because your best friend wont come play with you doesnt mean your team sucks it could be that your best friend is just a competitive SOB. Magic and Larry were friends off the court, same with Magic and Isiah but they didnt go wanting to be on each others team. Charles in the twilight of his career was traded to Houston but in his prime he was the main option trying to beat Jordan, Hakeem etc.

Both Wade and James have shown that they are good enough to lead their teams to the finals -- Bosh not so much a perfect 2nd option though like Pau Gasol -- for all three to want to team up to win you can say its "admirable" because they want to get 5-6 rings but the challenges they would have faced going against each other is gone. They took the easy way out...in the end it defeats the reason why we - and i mean the population as a whole not just professionals - play sports - for the competition.

one of the greatest sports cliche is "Its not whether if you win or lose - its how you play the game" -- IMO James especially since he is the iconic sports player for a new generation of kids coming up changed the way competition is viewed rather than trying to beat your opponent -regardless if you are friends or not -- you join them to have fun and make life easy.

This to me cheapens competition as whole -- i mean even if the Rockets were a team that had:

D. Williams
Durant
Melo
Griffin
Howard

and had Rose, Kobe and Amare off the bench

Sure they would probably win 70 if not 75+ games every season and should easily win the championship year in and out until they are all too old to play basketball. I would be happy as fan that my team is the champs but after a while it would get boring to watch with no competitiveness.

The league will still be somewhat competitive but the first "domino" has fell with james leaving to be with wade, before you needed to have 2-3 all stars to win a championship now it seems you will need not just 2-3 all stars but at least 2 superstars to do so too. The formation of "superfriend super teams" is great for the large markets that have them but it will kill the NBA as a whole. No competitiveness to start = no real sport.


Thats part of the reason why the nfl is so great..sure you have your really good teams - pats, packers, steelers etc but the level of competition is so high that that often its not the team that had the most talent that won on Sunday - its the team that was the most prepared and played the hardest.

 

The_Yoyo

How does it cheapen competition for LeBron, Wade and Bosh to decide to play together (they lost by the way), but competition wasn't cheapened when other past teams had multiple HOF'ers playing together. Just because the players didn't choose it? So if the Heat tanked, traded a top 5 pick for Bosh and a bunch of stuff for LeBron, and had the same roster (3 studs surrounded by inferior talent) then it would be ok because the players didn't decide to team up?

 

Considering there are players being paid millions to not play *cough*

It's probably fair that the teams be guaranteed profits even if they're useless....

 

In a one and done matchup, the best team doesn't always win, in a 7 game series, you might be able to win with a hot streak game 7 but to even get to that point, you need to be very close to your opponent.

 

The only thing that matters about the CBA negotiation is this:

They are gonna settle somewhere in the red area in the following graph.



Nothing else really matters much.

 

can you care to explain then why the NBA had its highest ratings when MJ and the Bulls were winning every damn year? The NBA had its best ratings in years where 1-2 teams dominate (Lakers/Celts in the 80s, then Bulls in the 90s, then Lakers in 00s). The ratings were back up again the past few years b/c the Lakers finally were back to the top. And the ratings went even higher this year b/c there was a team people wanted to hate b/c they had an accumulation of superstars.

The NFL isn't a star-driven league, it's a teams-driven league. You do not follow the NFL's recipe to run the NBA, which is a star-driven league.

 

This is what the owners want....

"So where will it end? Coon said the league will be in the black if the players' share of revenue is reduced to about 52 percent. The question is how much further owners will be determined to push the take in their favor.

He did say it is likely that if owners get the revenue split they're seeking, they will give up insistence on a hard salary cap that would prevent teams from exceeding the ceiling limit even to retain their own players (the so-called Larry Bird exception). Sign-and-trade deals have done more to drive up costs, he said, and could be eliminated.

Granik said he didn't believe owners are intent on breaking the players' union, but that they are very determined to get a deal that is more palatable to them than the one that expires Thursday. It remains to be seen the cost of reaching that equilibrium."

 

The cavs lost james and lost 41 games in their win total, but you're going to tell me they built the team around him? What about all the blown draft picks? What about the fact your 2nd best player is mo williams? I don't know how long you have been watching the nba, but the nba has always been better with dominant teams no matter where they play at.

Look at duncans career in sa. Duncan was always a threat to leave and he kept the pressure to put a high end team around him. He almost did the same thing and went to orlando. At the time, hill was probably the best wing player, and mcgrady an up and coming player. Would you feel the same if small market orlando would've pulled it off? The smaller markets, just have to draft well. When was the last time chris paul had a legit sg next to him? If he leaves, that's the hornets fault. These players aren't dumb and won't stick around like some of the old guys did. I go back to what kg said. As they beat the cavs, he said he wished he would've left 3 yrs ealier. I think that rang loud and clear with james. I don't care if james win a title in miami,cleveland, or the moon, but his legacy will be based on how many titles he wins. That's what guys play for and I don't see any reason why they should be penealized because they're going to the best place to do that.

 

Can't they just adopt a salary system similar to more plebeian jobs?

Starting salary, guaranteed raise per year - that's not percentage based, yearly renewals.

 

Could you explain this in more detail? I can't make sense of it.

Why's the break-even line way below Gross BRI?

 

^Oh wait. Nevermind, Carl. I figured it out.

 

Yes. Right here: http://bbs.clutchfans.net/showthread.php?t=206346

 

if the players had their way, teams would continue to lose money, and eventually fold. i don't think the players realize that their requests, if granted, will put them out of a job one day. when the nba prospers the players prosper. look at the average salary now compared to past generations. as the nba makes money, salaries go up. right now the nba has lost money and they nee salaries to go back down. the players are being near sighted and greedy. they need to weather a financial storm with the league or they will sink it.

now, i understand the need for a players union. when the nba makes money, they are entitled to higher salaries, longer contracts, etc... and without the union the owners would surely keep the players away from as much money as they could. currently the union is not realizing that there won't be any players if there isn't an nba. some nba teams are in serious danger and need the players to agree to less money for a next few years until this cba expires. by then the recession should hopefully be a thing of the past. people will have money to spend on basketball, teams will prosper, and the players will be entitled to larger contracts again. until then they need to get their heads our of there you-know-what's.

 

I think yoyo makes some awesome points but for me one of the biggest problems is if we as the Rockets cleared a crap load of cap space and jumped in to sign Wade, Bosh, and James would they sign here in Houston?

I think the answer would be a definite NO!

Lebron and Wade to me are a business they are trying to win championships as players they are just trying to make a empire especially lebron! Kevin Durant and Tim Duncan on the other hand are basketball players. Their trying to win championships.

 

Most plebeian jobs aren't based on a system that needs it's workers to agree to unlawful things such as not choosing where they work or not being able to market themselves to the highest bidder. Additionally, I'm sure the top 1% of any profession that you can think of doesn't have a plebeian type salary system.

 

Frankly, I don't see why anyone wants to root for either side or sees one of the sides as being in the wrong. It's just a business negotation over the cost of services. I don't root for either the NBA or the NBAPA to "win" just like I don't root for either Coca Cola or one of its distributors to win their contract negotiation.

Well, the one difference is that I don't really drink Coca Cola, but I do watch NBA ball, so I hope the NBA and the union settle this thing ASAP.