[CBS Sports - Berger] Labor update as NBA heads for 'ugly' lockout

Lock them out, let's get the pressure going....the sooner it starts the sooner it ends.

DD

 

I'm going to call this bs. I don't care where they come from, I just want my team to win. I guess you didn't like clyde or barkley forcing their way to houston? The lebron thing is overreaction to nothing. When tracy wanted to play with yao, I didn't hear anyone complaining.

 

When you go from being a have to a have not, the perspective changes.

DD

 

Everyone take their talents to more glamorous cities if given the choice. Same job, Boise, Idaho or New York city? It's an easy choice.

 

Exactly. If the rocket have the money and a few good players, they will get a shot at those guys. I've said it before, houston is a desireable city in the nba no matter what the small market minded people on this board thinks. Guys want the best chance to win a title and they want money. Its really that simple. I guarantee that if after the season if the rockets have enough to to get williams and howard or paul and howard, they can get them. Those guys want to play with another superstar to take the load off. I'm not saying that's the best way, but it does help big time when you have a lot of support. All these people talking franchise tag would pee on themselves if the rockets got williams and howard.

 

Only the have-nots want fairness. But in the long run, fairness is good for the big picture.

When it comes to labor negotiation, everybody is selfish. But the players self-interest is by nature more narrow and short-sighted. They basically want to get the most out of a 10 years or so career.

The owners' self-interest necessarily ties in with the long-term health of the league. They have to look at the big picture and fan interest is a big consideration.

 

I have never seen a $10000 man's suit!

 

Would the NBA limit each team to two super stars?
How would they enforce it?

 

I guess its slightly different

i would say what tracy did was more what melo did this season

he wanted to play for one team and said would only sign an extension to that team and was traded there.

denver and orlando got players back in the exchange though


what bosh and james did was different the nature of the sign and trade made it so that both bosh and james got the extra year on their deals and sent to the team they wanted to go to.... i mean from cleveland/toronto's perspective a few draft picks and a massive TE is better than nothing and the teams have to approach it without emotion as a business transaction but its still a massive F- You to them. I still wish cleveland and toronto would have said no sign and trade if you go you dont get that final massive year on your deal.


there is no way you can convince me or most people the bosh, james and wade didnt think of this well before july 1st, 2010. there was that meeting riley had with james back in december of 09 or something and shortly after james saying how #23 should be retired league wide in honor of MJ...(the heat retired #23 in honor of MJ already). that meeting itself was illegal of course but i guess the league looked the other way.

in the past it was generally one player forcing a trade and the team that he was leaving usually received competent players, young prospects or high picks in return.


outside of Shaq (on the old CBA too) I cant remember the last time a player of that magnitude just left in free agency. On top of that two players leaving in free agency to the same team.

i think thats the biggest thing that it wasnt one player it was two -- two players who were one of the best if not the best at their position leaving in free agency. well within their rights of course but the nba and its owners would need to be scared because even though there were massive ratings this year of ppl wanting to see the heat lose...thats going to wear off soon. The heat will only get better and that they were only 2 victories away from a ring in their first year is scary to me. I'll root for the rockets of course still but its going to be bad overall if no other teams except the heat, lakers, boston (for another year or so if that), NY being the only teams with a real shot of winning the title all the other teams will be there have good to great regular seasons but when it really matters they just wont cut it.

basically its sort of saying you are going to need amazing luck, not just good luck to be competitive if you arent a big market. take OKC they had good luck in getting durant and westbrook in back to back drafts but then amazing luck in that Durant has an 'old' school type of mentality that he wants to win it on his own and have people come to his team. but thats rare -- take a look deron williams wanted out of utah to somewhere where he could be with other all-stars, dwight keeps implying that LA is his choice, Paul already said at melo's wedding how he,melo and amare playing in NY

I mean the new culture of players are now saying they want to go play with their friends in the big cities, its not just one guy saying i want to go play here its multiple guys saying we want to play together basically forming teams on their own. Players are more and more becoming GMs.


I wouldnt be surprised at all if the new cba has something in place to prevent what James, wade and Bosh did to ever happen again. There is enough talent in the league to have 2 of those 3 on the same team and give other teams realistic shots but all 3 its probably going to be too much unless you have a 3 man star combo yourself. I wouldnt be surprised too if the new CBA will make it difficult for miami to keep all 3 guys on their max contracts and add other decent players that will command more than the vet min.


this lockout is going to go on for a while because not only are the owners against the players...the owners are divided among themselves as well..small market owners are going to want their investments protected from the large market owners and the large market owners will want less restrictions so they have use of all their advantages.

 

Easy, the owners who have a franchise in a large market with a nice media contract have a long term interest in maintaining what they have. It's the small(er) market teams who need to be helped in the next contract. The onus is only partly on the players. The biggest movement needs to be from the big market teams that have big media contracts and big incomes, and that movement needs to be revenue sharing with the smaller market teams in order to provide some competitive balance.

Blaming the players is easy, Easy. It's exactly what Stern and the league, driven by the big market teams, want the public perception to be. "It's all the players fault." The small market teams have little real influence, regardless of their numbers, so they simply hope for the best. If the big market teams refuse to consider any real revenue sharing, then slashing salaries via whatever mechanism the large market teams are pushing is what they will support. It sucks.

Houston? We're on the cusp between a "large market" and a small one, with the potential for greater media revenue, along with the fact that we have no state income tax and players like to live here. With good management and luck, we can put out a good team. With great management, and some luck (ala the Spurs, and the coin tosses back in our own history), we can win championships. The odds are heavily stacked against the smaller market teams, however. One thing that would help, IMO, is contraction. Get rid of 2 or 3 small market teams, improve the product on the court, and remove some of the headaches.

 

The current system would work just fine if these 3 things happened:

- teams share revenue
- small teams stop doing dumb ish and run their franchises well

If the owners are losing money based on them being idiots and giving hige salaries to guys who clearly don't deserve it, then why should the players pay for those mistakes? Can't they just as easily share revenue and put the other owners on the hook? But oh no, the owners don't want to pay for another owners mistakes because they are smart businessmen. So they assume the players are idiots and will agree to pay for it.

I doubt the players can outlast the owners but I sure hope they can. You can't argue that you are losing all this $$ when YOU decide how much you spend.

 

You make it out that small teams are small because they make moronic choices. Do you think small market teams such as memphis and toronto and OKC have a chance of landing a big name in the free agency when the big glamor cities can get them for the same price? With no hard cap, these same big cities can keep adding big names if they are willing to pay.

The only way small market teams can get a decent player is overpaying for a mid level player, then the team is stuck with a bad contract when the player loses motivation to play due to the lopsidedness of the league.

Revenue sharing doesn't fix this. A hard cap will force the talent to be distributed more evenly. Small teams can get more talented players w/out having to over pay, thus a better chance of making a profit.

If there is not enough talent in the league, then the league needs to contract. Increase the roster to 16 players for the next 3 years and drop two teams.

 

If you want to make it easier on small market teams then implement revenue sharing, which puts more $$ in those teams pockets and allows them to spend more. I would prefer to see this then to see the players pay for it.

That's just an inherent disadvantage of playing in a small location. I don't see why the players should take less salary to offset this disadvantage. Build your team wisely and concince your star to stay. That's what they are doing in OKC. That's what Howard supposedely wants in Orlando (they just aren't building a good team around him).

Revenue sharing does not fix dudes choosing to play in small locations. I don't think you should penalize players by further restricting how much they can make in an open market to fix this. However, revenue sharing does give small teams more $$ to spend to convicne players to sign there.

But there is enough talent in the league. I don't think every guy with a max contract deserves one, but last I checked most of those guys had multiple teams offering them max money. You can't tell me the system is broke if multiple teams keep coughing up the dough. Stop spending your money on dudes who don't deserve it. Problem solved.

 

The franchise tag is the most unamerican anti-free market concept ever adopted by US sports.

No franchise tag and no guaranteed contracts. It's the only way.

 

question for all the hardcore CBA guys for both the nba and nfl… the public perception i get from everyone is this NBA: players fault NFL: Owners fault..

would this be correct??

 

Yoyo, no matter when they thought about it, the team could've done something about it. Totroto is not a small market. Toronto is a huge market with a great fan base. They should've traded bosh and let someone else deal with that just like utah did with williams this yr.cleveland was different, but look at their roster. Why should james be forced to play with that garbage of a roster? Just because barkley ,malone, and guyslike that waited till they were done before trying to win a title. Bottomline, the guys took less to play together. When your best friend won't come play with you, your team probably sux. Clyde and dream talked about playing together early in their careers,but both were under contracts for so long. I can bet if houston would've had cap room and clyde of 88 was coming free, clyde would've been a rocket earlier.

 

Leeb, none of them took less they all get paid.

DD