First of all with regard to the Olympics,the philosophy needs to change as far as the composition of our team.We need to bring it with the best of the NBA,and they need to be serious about what they want to achieve.A blend of veterans and younger players are fine,but I want true pros,not immature brats with different agendas.Everyone needs to be on the same page.Naming Allen a Team Captain was straight up ridiculous.He demonstrated right away the lunacy of this move by being late.Now,is that the way a professional BBall player,much less the team captain is supposed to behave?Watching some of these guys on and off the court during the Games was embarrassing. On AI...Here's a guy that has skipped practices,shown up late,and has been the epitome of a spoiled 'me first guy' from the get go."It's only practice"...C'mon...What does it say to all the kids out there?...AI is selfish on and off the court.Just because he got emotional when they lost doesn't mean a thing.
Allen wasn't "named" a captain. He was unanimously voted as a captain by his teammates. Oh, and he's accomplished more than McGrady or Garnett ever has.
O.K.,he was voted Captain.Considering the composition of this team,along with the results,I'm not surprised. In addition to the off the court stuff,he was 34-90,shooting .378.
But it was not because of him jacking up shots. Guys were afraid to shot outside so A.I. had to take some even with a broken thumb.
Basically,the deal is that I see AI(on and off the court),being the opposite of what the Olympics are all about. ..and for that matter,Championship teams in the Association too. Definitely,at this stage of his career.
Yeah, okay. Despite dragging a mediocre team to the Finals, playing through more injuries than anyone in the league, winning MVPs and scoring titles, setting NBA records in steals, AI isn't about winning. Sure. All you've argued is that he shoots too much and doesn't like to practice. Bill Russell didn't practice either. He just played his ass off on gameday, and AI does the same thing. So he shoots too much. I guess he should have let Tyrone Hill and George Lynch and Matt Geiger put up shots. You just don't like AI.
That team was built around him.The Sixers relied on defense while Allen WAS their offense.He had Carte Blanche to jack away and did some amazing things. I'd be lying if I said I didn't admire some of the things they accomplished as a team.Hell,I rooted for them to get to the finals.That Sixers team had major stones...overachievers grinding it out.But,this was in the East.... I don't see his game translating to a program where he isn't the focal point....at all. ...and you are correct,I don't like him..or what he represents. To me,the league,while thriving in many areas,is not what it once was.
y do u even think he is dat good?? hiis rookie season stats r just similar to francis's rookie season btw, he will never be in top15 until he can shoot 45% fg
uuuhhh....guys? this is the GARM....if yall want to have a extended debate over Lebron-bron, AI and the Olympics....go start a thread in NBA dish.....this thread has been TOTALLY sidetracked from its original topic about Yao and TM being Top 10. discussions about non-Rockets go in the NBA Dish forum.....where you will find alot of fans of other teams that dont really bother with GARM will join in...
I dont see whats wrong with AI's "practice" phrase. I mean seriously, it's just practice. Jonathan bender always destorys people in Pacers practice but when was the last time he showed us why he deserved to be picked in the first round?
Mr. Durden, LeBron James is the future of the NBA (along with Melo)...you might as well accept it. He is THE new face of the league, and as many have already stated, he actually exceeded all the unrealistic expectations people placed on him. Just think about what it truly means that he is even better than anyone hoped he would be... The fact that his physical development is so far ahead of the curve is nothing but a bonus...it is the mental aspect of the game that separates the great ones. That side of the game is what allows guys like Karl Malone to maintain a competitive edge over most others into their forties, and it is usually the last aspect of a player's game to develop. That is why at the ripe old age of 19 LeBron still has TREMENDOUS room for growth as a player. If you disagree that the mental side is the most important in a player's development...there is no point in continuing this conversation. The fact the LeBron has handled everything with the grace and ease of a ten-year veteran is a very good sign that he has the mental makeup to take those critical steps to greatness. He is very media-savvy, has the marketability to be what Kobe used to be for corporate america, and genuinely seems to ENJOY the spotlight. Add that to his unfair physical advantages, and you have a player that can carry not only a team, not only a league, but an entire sport on his back as only a few ever have. He brings a unique set of skills that we have never seen before...the best description of his style/ability is Magic Johnson's court sense with MJ athleticism, all in the body of a 6'8" 235 lb power forward. He has AI speed, Vince hops, and the maturity and composure of a young Tiger Woods. To undermine his accomplishments and potential with a few statistics like shooting percentages and assists-per-game (based off of his ROOKIE year no less) is just insulting to what this kid has shown in only one season of pro basketball.
He will be part of the future, like the 400 other NBA players who will play this season and afterwards. And I DO accept that. He is, like you said, the new NBA hot boy. He has alot of marketability because of all the hype the NBA has invested in him. But please don't confuse marketability with Ability. Now I'm not saying he's a chump, if you read my post i compared him with Penny, Hill, Tmac, Kobe etc., but when your believing he's some kinda MJ/Magic combo, thats when your confused. And I love this phrase you use, "unrealistic expectations". Hmm.. If the expectations were unrealistic, then WHY did people expect it?!? Any if you actually MEET the expectation, then doesn't that make the expectation..uh.. realistic? Isn't that the definition of a realistic expectation? One that you meet. So when he actually meets the expecations you call it unrealistic, hilarious how much this guy gets pumped. I absolutely agree with you. MJ was athletic, he had a nice shot. But since him there has been players more athletic, players who are better shooters, but no more MJs. What separated MJ from the rest is his extreme competitiveness, and length of time which he sustained this uber level of competitiveness. But i do have to correct you on one point. This type of competitiveness you are born with, not developed. MJ could not stand losing, and that meant in basketball, in baseball, in golf, in LIFE. You don't "learn" it, you don't practice it, you HAVE it, you are blessed with it. Very few people have the mental edge that the truely great players have. And when they have it, trust me you can tell. MJ had it. Larry had it. Magic, KG, even Kobeotch has it. Lebron doesn't. Now this is not to say he doesn't care about winning or that he is lazy, not at ALL. It just means he is not at the level of the greats, mentally. What exactly does this have to do with anything? Is his media-savvyness and enjoyment of attention going to improve his jumpshot? Once again, do not confuse marketability with ability. Oh good lord. *puke* *preemptive puke* He does NOT have Magic's court sense. He has good court sense for a 6'8 forward. He has good passing skills for a 6'8 forward. But PLEASE don't confuse that with one of(The) the all-time greatest passers. Magic averaged 11.2 assists in his career, which is a NBA record. Lebron won't TOUCH that. Won't even get a peek at it. On a good day, he may... nahhhh... he won't even get a whiff at it. And please, enough of this "Oh i don't care how many assists he average! He is the greatest passer ever! EVER!" crap. If his GREAT passes don't turn into assists, then WTF good are they. As i said before, and will again, he is an ABOVE average passer. Comparing his with the GOAT of passing is an insult to basketball. Heres another shocker, J Will is a better passer. AHH! *make it stop, oh please make it stop* His accomplishments: winning 35 games in the lEast with a top 5 center and 4th(arguably 3rd) best PF in the east. And not making the playoffs in the lEast. ...35 wins.... not making playoffs...lEast....top Center.... top PF Hopefully somewhere in there you get the point im trying to make. That he hasn't accomplished SQUAT. And with a very good team at that. And please don't give me the 17 wins the year before crap, everyone and their mama knew they were tanking it for Lebron. In conclusion, let me repeat my stand, again. Lebron is a good player. If he developes a jumpshot, he will get a shot at being better than the likes of Hill, Penny, even Kobe or Tmac. But if he doesn't, like so many before him who have tried, he will be a very athletic SF with above average passing skills. Borderline dime a dozen. The sexy arguments like, " He's 19!", "He was a ROOKIE!" really hold not water. So what?! He will be 20 next year and he will be the same 6'8 240, playing 40 mins a game. Is he going to develope better court sense? No. Is he going to develope a MJ-like competitiveness? No. A better question would be, will he develope a jumpshot? Hopefully. And what he Definitly will get is experience. And with the playing time he is getting, he will get 2-3 years more experience than the normal high schooler. So when he's 25, he will be playing with the experience of a seasoned 28 yearold. What does that translate to? In my opinion, marginal. For the billionth time, if he was 6'8 198, playing 30 mins and averaged his 20 5 5, i would be ESTATIC. I would be saying stuff like he has the court sense of magic but athletism of MJ all stuck up the ass of a 6'8 PF(when he developes physically). But oh wait, Lebron is in the body of a 25 yearold and plays the minutes of a superstar. What does that spell? Less Potential To Improve. Next time i'm going to have to do it in chinese characters.
No one knows *how good* LeBron will be. Too many variables. But he has the physical tools. That we know. We just don't know if he has the mental drive to make it all work. If he has 3/4ths the drive of Jordan, he'll truly be a monster! But we have to see his competitive spirt is like. He hasn't been tested yet (in play-off situations). We just don't know if he has the mental fortitude to be a champion. As far as stats. They will come. As long he works on the other aspects of the game; mental aspect, inner drive, work ethic, and team-play. If he doesn't learn those fundamental things above, then he'll be like you stated below...a dime-a-dozen, yet spectacular, athletic, new-school super star...but a non-champion. Personally, I think he'll be better than most think. Even though I'm more an anti-new-school fan than most. I believe LJ will have a bigger impact on the game than KG and Kobe. Just wait...have patience.
The point is, the mental aspect is everything to make that greatness shine, and you act as if every great player has arrived from day one and made their team NBA champions, while simultaeously sweeping MVP, Defensive Player of the Year, All-Star Game, and Finals MVP honors while averaging a triple-double and composing their first symphony by the age of 19. Just wondering, but what were (are?) you doing at the age of 19? The maturation of any truly great man, whether it be an NBA superstar or a great military commander or a doctor or whatever, does not conclude at the age of 19. LeBron is arguably, at this stage in his career, the most accomplished professional in the history of his sport. I'm not saying absolutely, just possibly. But to suggest he is anywhere near his peak, mentally or physically, is insane. Any nutritionist/personal trainer/strength and conditioning coach will tell you most athletes hit their competitive primes around the ages 25-27. It is at this point that their understanding of the game matures while they still have most of their youthful athleticism and durability. That is why everyone is so excited about pairing Yao and Tmac...they are two legitimate, established superstars who should just be entering their respective primes. Which also means that the best of LeBron should be arriving around 2010 or so. Michael didn't win jack his first year. And that was after 2-3 years of learning from one of the best college coaches ever. Magic had the good fortune of pairing with Kareem and Pat Riley from day one. Same with Bird; I don't consider Boozer, Ilgauskus and Jeff McInnis as the second coming of McHale, Parish and Dennis Johnson. He took a team that was terrible enough to even have the first pick in the draft and made them an average team, could enough to compete, but not good enough to get in. There is no shame in what LeBron has shown in one year. I'm not saying he is HoF yet, but he looks as good after only one season of professional ball as anyone in recent history. Give him a year or two before putting a cap on his potential as a player. Rome wasn't built in a day. And neither was the Bulls dynasty of the 90's...or Hakeem's dynasty with the Rockets...or the Pistons team of last year. Championships are built around veterans, which LeBron is not quite yet.
Ok me replying is just going to be a bunch of me repeating myself, so lets just agree to disagreed. Put it this way, no one knows how good Lebron will be, for certain. So arguing about something thats unknown is pointless, lets just be patient and wait to find out. *ok, so i ended up repeating DavidS*
Let me be the first to be flamed by saying Yao should not be in the 9 spot! The following players are better: Shaq Duncan KG Kobe T-Mac VC Dirk Kidd J O'neal Iverson Pierce Peja I think #13 is even alittle high for Yao as he showed in the play-offs (and late in the season) that he definately needs his teammates help to play well. Also he doesn't have the ability to make his teammates better (as Hakeem did) or the ability to take over a game by himself. This year he SHOULD benifit from defense covering T-Mac but it will still be interesting when he has single coverage by Duncan, Shaq and Big Ben. Can he goto the next level? For sure! But until then... he's not top 10 material IMO.
I definitely agree that #9 is too high for Yao until he gets his consistency issues sorted out. But I completely disagree that Yao doesn't make his teammates better. The fact that Yao got consistent double teams for the first time last year, and JJ and Mobley both had career highs in 3pters made (along with an excellent 3pt % at .400 and .390 respectively) is not a coincidence.
Oh man, let the flaming begin. There are so many things wrong about this post. But too bad i can't do the honors(tonight), since i'm heading to bed. But please, people, flame on. PS I actually agree with you that he isn't top 10, yet still there are so many thing wrong with this post.
On a side note TD (I mean, this thread had so many side notes already), I noticed that you just joined recently. And I was wondering if you had been to ClutchBBS before and knew what to expect. I ask this because new users have to contribute before they are allowed in (which is completely understandable with the bandwidth issues on teh board). And I don't really expect a whole lot of people to contribute to the site before they can even view it, unless they already knew how good it was. So did you already know about this site before, and knew that it would be worth the donation. Or did you come in on a bit of blind faith.
