Brandeis University rescinds honorary degree to Ayaan Hirsi Ali for being critical of Islam

A big "fail" for the administration of Brandeis. A failure to follow through on this honorary degree if they honestly felt that she deserved it, and if they have only now figured out that she doesn't, an even bigger failure for not doing due diligence before announcing that she would get the degree.

Very stupid.

 

Love this spin. Yes, it is a very rational non radical idea that the inherent nature of Islam needs to change which I guess could eventually mean of "all" of Islam.

Please tell me what is "radical" about someone saying this:
A core principle of Islam is that the holy book and it's prophet are perfect. Thus Islam is an objective moral truth. These perceived objective moral truths by it's followers might have been somewhat progressive 1300 years ago however today they do not compatible with today's moral standard or at least western morals.

 

The individual is not fascist. Their ideology and their religious leaders are fascist. Islam, Christianity, and Judaism are inherently fascist. One being creates all the rules. All the rules created by this one being are infallible.

There is no hate speech here. This is pure rational objective thinking.

And yes, it is rational to demonize what one perceives to be fascist and a degradation to human advancement. Is it "self-serving" to demonize Nazism or the Catholic Church before the reformation?

 

LMFAO

 

What university would award an honorary degree who called Christianity a fascist ideology? No one would question a university declining that.

What you have is a group of radical people and you are trying to pin their radicalism on their religion. But what gets ignored is that absolute repressive gov't and economic conditions that they are coming from as well.

 

Let's just agree on one thing. When Muslims violently protest people have a problem (understandably so) and when Muslims peacefully protest then people still find a problem with it. Make up your minds. The hatred towards Islam is obvious. Quit being hypocrites.

 

It's unfortunate that Brandeis did this. You would think they would have known who Ayaan was before offering an honorary degree to her, and the PR repercussions if they changed their mind. Although many of her criticisms have merit, I disagree with Ayaan's ultimate conclusion and attitude towards Islam. This post is aimed at critics like her, fchowd, and many of the atheists/agnostics who believe Islam should be wiped off that math and that it is inherently flawed, dangerous, and/or irrelevant today. This is a collection of my old posts:

and

The majority of critics like Ayaan and her supporters do not recognize the above. It's like my Afghani servants back in Pakistan whose idea and criticisms of America may stem from observing a group of Marines from rural Arkansas, watching the current Congress "debate" in Washington, etc. These servants lack the deeper knowledge relating to how America got here, what it used to be like in the 1880s or 1930s, or how its citizens felt after 9/11. The servants know only one thing: drones are bad thus America is bad.

You can choose to see Islam as a nuisance with images of angry, bearded men, women dressed in beekeeper suits, and crumbling societies marked by death and explosions. Or, you may see a woman (my aunt) wearing a lab coat and jeans, her hair uncovered as she views a monitor showing a 3D image of a protein. Sometimes she exclaims a Quranic phrase if something momentous occurs. Her research is science coexisting with faith. This work benefits society, and according to her, without her religion she would not be who she is today.

Some recognize that extremist Islam/Islamism is one thing, Islam as an idea is another, and a reformed Islam with updated Quranic translations that is harmonious with 21st century attitudes is another. Ayaan and some posters in this thread dislike the religion entirely. Their solutions are mutually exclusive with the faith, they claim. I believe that is short-sighted, counter-productive, and ignorant because there are a minority of us whose very lives show the contrary.

TL;DR Islam need not be wiped out. It's a deeper problem than a cursory Google search or internet meme can show. People often lope Islam with other faiths in their overall frustration with religion. However, they are unaware of issues unique to Islam that make that generalized dislike of religion a mistake.

 

Uhh no. It would have been a fail if she was actually awarded with something she most definitely doesn't deserve. She associates Islam with fascism, she wants the religion to not exist, calls it a death cult and thinks God promotes jihadism. You can't have a university promoting and recognizing someone with those views publicly. They saved face by rescinding this "degree".

I'm not saying the atrocities she makes note of are no insignificant. They are very concerning but her equating all of that with Islam is false. Many other factors are involved. She just gets a lot of attention and has a platform to speak which is why her views get broadcasted often.

To the people saying that her receiving death threats are worse than what she speaks on, you're right. However, those death threats are not made my Islam, they're made by idiots.

Islam is going through a very trying period right now. It's core beliefs are being hijacked by extremists and idiots who misquote verses and use it for their own gain without any knowledge of Islam. How many of these terrorists or violence-promoting "muslims" have any formal education of Islam under their belt? They're not knowledgeable on the religion at all, they just use certain aspects of the religion in ways that fit their own personal/cultural ideology and act on it thinking it's Islam's true teachings. If you want to know Islam, do some unbiased research without going in looking for something to criticize, go to people of knowledge, Imams with formal training, research with an open mind. A lot of people (non-muslims) actually do that and learn a great deal about how Islam doesn't promote any of the hateful things many people perceive it does. But if you go in with a predetermined mindset, you won't learn it's true message and fall into the trap of labeling it a violent and intolerant religion.

 

Yes he was an idiot. But also non muslims do these type of things (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Assassination_of_Pim_Fortuyn). There are idiots in every group of people.
That being said there are many people who abuse woman and use religion as an excuse. I have no sympathy for those people.

Deckard is not saying she should have given the award. What he is saying (and I agree) is that they should have known what Ayaan was about. So if they did not support her they should not have even giving the degree in the first place.

The fail from their part is first wanting to give her the degree, and then suddenly deciding that they do not want to give the degree. They should have made a choice and stick with it. He did not make a judgement if Ayaan deserved it or not.

Like I said before I dispise honorary degrees. People should have to work for the degree they get.

This is actually the thing I dislike the most about Ayaan. People are allowed to have a different opinion than me, but with Ayaan I always get the impression she is doing it purely for her own gain (similar feeling I have with Wilders). The switch from the PVDA to the VVD was bad, it is like switching from democrat to republican because she wanted more chance at power (and maybe get into the government.

That being said there are many things I disagree with in many countries, and also in many arab countries, but the Demonisation Ayaan is doing (and Wilders also) is not helping the problem it is only creating more extremists.

 

Demonisation? For her own gain?

She is being threatened with death - for stating an opinion.

That's what people should be outraged about.

Wouldn't it be more "gain" for her to be silent and thereby possibly avoid getting death threats from Islamists (which, as we see, are to be taken VERY seriously)?

And any cult that is taken as a reason to threaten someone with death for stating an opinion deserves to be criticized. That is not demonisation. That is stating the truth.

 

It is terrible that she is getting death threats. And the people making these death threats should be criticized. SJC we have had so many discussions about this subject that I know you know that I abhore the violence some of these groups do. It is terrible what is happening in many of the arab countries. I really cannot understand how any person can do those things.

I'm not outraged with Ayaan. I simply believe she is not helping the cause. I also do not see the gain in living her life. But fors ome people Fame is important. I do not know if that is the case with her, but her actions in the Netherlands gave me that impression. I could be wrong.

The part I have a problem with is the generalization of all the people who are muslim because of what a select group is doing. Are there idiotic muslims in the world? Yes ofcourse, just as there are idiotic christians and Atheists.

SJC, we basically want the same thing. That the extreme/orthodox teachings of these religions will go away. The difference between you and me is the way we think this should be achieved. IMHO the way Ayaan (and Wilders) try to achieve this is actually hurting the cause. these demonizations of all Muslim people will only increase the amount of radicalized people.

In my opinion demonizing and disunity will only lead to more radicalisation. That is why I dislike these people, they claim they want to help the situation but they are hurting the situation. Which leads me to believe they care more about the fame than about helping the cause (ofcourse I cannot know this for sure). I I think the young people who are susebtible for radicalization will not turn that way if they are included in sociaty.

 

But the ideology behind it is not the same. Not every religion is the same. Some ideologies are more violent than others.

It's not a demonization of all Muslim people to say that the roots of the ideology they are following promote intolerance and aggression. They can still be nice people, individually, I guess most of them block out most of the terrible parts of it. But the ideology itself is bad.

Not all Germans were evil during the Hitler years. But saying that Nazi ideology was bad and fighting it was not a demonization of all Germans. It was what had to be done.

What is the alternative? To shut up? If nobody speaks up against fascist ideologies such as aggressive Islamism, then what? I think it is extremely misguided to demand silence and appeasement towards an aggressive ideology. What she is doing is exactly the right thing, and very brave.

She is getting death threats because she states opinions, for ....'s sake, and she is still maintaining her right to her opinion, despite of that.

That is not "caring about fame".

That's being brave, and a role model.

 

That may be the case. But I believe Islam is in its core similar to Christianity and Judaism. They all worship the same god anyway. I believe some people use the Quran to oppress people and make them follow their will. Similar to what happened with Christianity a couple of hundred years ago.

That is a nuance I think many Muslims will not understand, hence the creating of more radical people. I’m not against speaking against the radical parts of religions. I know to many Muslim people who are very kind hearted, and they are hurt by how the world views there religion (they are also hurt by how the radicals abuse their religion).

You should criticize the people using violence. But not judge an entire group as the result of the actions of a few. IMHO the best thing to do is wait, in most religions the extreme parts are disappearing . When the prosperity increases the radical parts of religions are disappearing. All we have to do is not demonize every person following a religion.

Like I said I do not know why she does what she does. For me all the power and fame in the world would not be worth the death threats, but I am also not involved in politics as she was. So she is a different person than me. The way she switched from the PVDA to the VVD when a place of power became available is something I hold against here. I cannot understand how she could be part of the VVD with her background (being a asylum seeker herself). My impression is that she is indeed doing it for the power and fame. Maybe I am wrong. I do respect her for standing up to her family with her arranged marriage.

Like I said we want the same thing just the way to achieving that goal is different. And I know we will never convince the other person of our view.