LMAOO EDIT: Found this also.....<object width="480" height="385"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/d1xV7nTSqww?fs=1&hl=en_US"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/d1xV7nTSqww?fs=1&hl=en_US" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="480" height="385"></embed></object> BWAHAHAAH.....MUAJHAHA
This is what passes for debate these days. Outshout your opponent and make outlandish generalizations, and you "win".
That's it iceicebaby, you got me. You actually make a pretty good point, I have the nerve to label someone a progressive liberal. Yeah, it's pretty self serving as I love to judge, categorize, all of my daily life interactions with folks. I didn't come up with the term progressive liberal, yet I do understand what it is they stand for and that is fascism, oops, excuse my labeling. And I have never, ever on this blog supported and said "republicans and the tea party is the way to go, yeehaw". Wait, is that you stereotyping me and slapping a label on my back? Wait, so what you are saying is that you can draw a conclusion of what this person stands for based upon past actions......eureka, that's it! So the only question is, what do you believe is right and what is wrong? I believe the progressive liberal is a controller and fascist, and I love to be a tough guy when put face to face with one, yeah, I'm going to kick your ****ing ass! Is that better than pseudo-macho, because, you know I hate labels.
Icepick, since I was inspired by such a moving piece of cinema and obviously a useful idiot in believing in the notion of hard work, what is your original and above the curve train of thought on my words? I am dying to understand why you mentioned the draft? What your definition of control is? I mean, dude, you must have some really groundbreaking stuff you need to break me off...
I tell you what, I'm actually going to go into basic sociology and give you someone else's original thought and hopefully try to expand. Minorities are defined as racial or ethnic groups that are considered disadvantaged. I think the most important concept is that of group identity. Group identity, IMO, is a function of family, however, there's a catch. Within a family, members, most often the heads in mom and dad, want to see the advancement in their offspring. However, within the group identity there is the idea of separateness which fundamentally isolates people. Which is exactly where the, pardon my label, progressive liberal takes hold. The concept of useful idiot becomes relevant and combined with well spoken and intelligent leaders from that group, comes an enormous amount of power. There in lies the great good that can be done, i.e. MLK, and the great abuse and rape of that power, i.e. the current climate of community organizing.
First of all, this is not a blog; it's a message board. Second, I never mentioned that I don't stereotype or label- that was YOUR contention- you say no one has the right to categorize, yet this is exactly what you do. Or is it OK for you and not for others? OK, right, gotcha. Third, fascism is defined as an authoritarian government with the "ability to commit violence and wage war in order to keep the nation strong." and "scholars generally consider fascism to be on the far right of the conventional left-right political spectrum." There are other definitions, but they're all pretty much the same. So, am I to understand that a Progressive Liberal is in favor of war? Am I to believe that a Progressive Liberal leans towards the right? OK, right, gotcha. Fourth, iceicebaby, while being your idea of a clever synonym, is actually pretty far off, unless you consider Blue Oyster Cult and Vanilla Ice to be on the same artistic level. Fifth, thank you very much for complimenting me on making a good point. I do try. Sixth, when you use a quotation, the punctuation mark goes on the inside of the quote, not the outside. So your sentence: And I have never, ever on this blog supported and said "republicans and the tea party is the way to go, yeehaw". should actually read: And I have never, ever on this blog supported and said "republicans and the tea party is the way to go, yeehaw." Also, Republicans and Tea Party are capitalized. Just in case you weren't sure. Seventh, yes, I believe I can draw a conclusion about you based on your numerous posts: "Wow, my right wing a** doesn't find that a bit odd or alarming" "Hell no, they have a duty to build a mosque to signify victory over the infidel, that's all this is, and if Imam Rauf and all his bs doesn't convince you these aholes care crap about america, you are a blithering idiot." I won't touch the first one, but I'll gladly respond to the 2nd. This whole cultural center controversy has completely duped a large section of the American public, yourself included. I think some facts are in order here: 1. There is an actual mosque 4 blocks away from the former World Trade Center site (which I had visited several times due to being born in Brooklyn and having many relatives in Queens, Manhattan, Brooklyn, and Staten Island). Even immediately after 9/11, there were zero protests, vandalism, etc. at this mosque, even though these individuals would occasionally pray outside the building at certain times due to over-capacity. Now, if individuals dressed as Muslims did this in the days, weeks, and months after 9/11, and they were not the target of protests, why would a cultural center 9 years later arouse this much hatred and opposition? 2. The answer: the media and a few individuals who stirred things up. This was a NON-STORY when it was published in the New York Times- a near-zero response of protests. Then, a few people get a hold of this, see a way to use it for political gain, and the fires are stoked. If you don't think a few individuals can take a non-issue and blow it up into something that has major, major consequences, then you need to Google Senator Joseph McCarthy and Willie Horton. 3. If you knew anything about the large, large majority of Muslims that live in this country, the last thing they want is to stir up trouble. The large, large majority of Muslims in America were horrified about the 9/11 attacks; this is documented through numerous interviews and stories following the incident in newspapers across the U.S. In my situation, if I were to extrapolate my own microcosm and make a judgment, it would be the same- my several Muslim friends in America reject all of the barbaric teachings of those who have bastardized Islam and are very appreciative of the opportunities America has afforded them. When you get to actually know these individuals, you discover these things. When you don't know and are coming from a standpoint of ignorance, that is when the racism and prejudice and hatred comes out. 4. These individuals care about America and the only reason they are labeled un-American is that they dare to mention some things America has done that are not so good. Geez, what are we, 12? We can't criticize our country (or, should I say, the actions of the party in power) for wrongdoings? No, we don't dare do this because then, we are LABELED traitors, socialists, and communists, and basically told to "get out." When us liberals (which is actually a very positive word and I'm proud to be associated with it, just as I am proud to be conservative) criticize the Iraq War or Vietnam War, we are doing nothing different than what conservatives are doing criticizing the Health Care Reform Act. Why does criticizing military actions make one un-American and criticizing domestic actions OK? Because it's all one big lie. Liberals are no more un-American that conservatives are- and their right to criticize, just as the cons do, is actually one of the most fundamental of American rights. So, by honestly evaluating the American government, including military decisions, they are actually MORE American than those who would deny us such freedoms. Which, unfortunately, is something that makes the "Liberals are un-American" crowd the biggest group of hypocrites on the planet. The Patriot Act? That is just as un-American, or as I feel, "American," than something like Health Care Reform. Or do I need to whip out the Constitution- something the Tea Partiers are so fond of evangelizing- to prove my point? Here goes: We the People of the United States, in Order to form a more perfect Union, establish Justice, insure domestic Tranquility, provide for the common defence, promote the general Welfare, and secure the Blessings of Liberty to ourselves and our Posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America The Health Care Reform Act can certainly fall under the category of "promoting the general welfare..." whether you agree it does that or not does not matter- by it's very nature, it is an attempt to do so. Anyway, I digressed a bit, but only to assert that we as citizens have the right to call on our government to redress wrongs. The Iman, in this case, says that America has caused some trouble in the world, among all the positive things he's said about the country. And that means he doesn't give a crap about America, right? Taking a page from your book, that's some stupid a** bu**s**t thrown out there by some dumbf**k idiots who, if they had a godd**m brain, would know better. Anyone who's not a total myopic understands that America is one of the world's leading powers, if not #1 in most categories, and yet has been involved in some things for which it deserved criticism (Vietnam, Iraq, Grenada). So, to say that cultural center is being set up as a victory mosque is really spouting one's ignorance. Really, S.C., you're better than that. Do some research, talk to people that are actually there, which I just did 3 weeks ago when I stayed in NYC for a week (visited Ground Zero, the UN, etc., and that really cool graveyard at the church near Wall Street where they have the tombstones with 1800 and 1900 dates on there), and you'l see the light. Eighth, I just feel sorry for you, ultimately. You're gonna kick my a**? I would absolutely stand in front of you, let you throw the first punch, then enjoy the several items I would buy after I sued you for assault. I would absolutely follow the model of Gandhi and MLK and let you thoroughly throttle me. Anytime. I do feel bad that you allow prejudice and ignorance to cloud your judgment on certain matters, I really do. If you got to know Muslims, you'd find them a fascinating, mostly highly intelligent group of people who want the same things we do and abhor Al Queda, Hamas, etc. That is not how they roll. Ninth, you have this tendency of over-exaggerating when people point out something to you. No need to do that, really. Much simpler to address their point directly. Tenth, I absolutely disagree with you on many things, on numerous issues, but I would be the first one to buy you a beer and thank you for voicing your opinions in detail. It is much better to exercise freedom of speech than not, and your numerous posts indicate you feel very strongly about your opinions. Same here. I would rather someone post things I disagree with than not post at all. It is a freedom I cherish more than any others. Eleventh, ultimately, what really matters, beyond politics, religion, the economy, moral issues, cultural practices, etc., is the performance of the Houston Rockets. Everything else comes up short. We must never forget that- that's why we're here in the first place. (this short story is copyrighted September 11, 2010 by BabyIceDog Publications, Inc. All rights reserved).
The draft? That's real simple. Young Americans were forced to sign up for military service. That is a clear-cut example of one group (the U.S. government) having control over another group (its citizens). Did these young men have a choice whether or not to sign up? No. You stated: "No man or organization has any right over your future." And I provided a clear example of one, which was clearly supported by the right. More importantly, though, is that I think that government control in certain situations is absolutely necessary and beneficial to promoting the "general welfare." How do I know this? For the past 10 years, I have been in the careers industry and I have assisted over 8,000 individuals with their career documents. I have been privileged to gain insight into the practices of corporations, and much of the information is shocking to say the least. As much good as corporations do, if not controlled in several aspects, we would be much worse off. Corporations are driven by profits- I should say, corporate leaders and management are driven by profits. I can't tell you how many times I've read that safety, quality, etc. were sacrificed to make a profit. If they could get away with it, most corporations would maintain as few safety and quality measures as possible- and benefits would be minimal - and the reason why is that corporate leaders are ultimately judged by their top line and bottom line. Period. If it weren't for the government stepping in, we would be much, much worse off. This has been told to me directly, in confidence, by numerous manufacturing managers, CFOs, HR directors, etc. It costs money to maintain product quality, ensure worker safety, guarantee employee benefits, etc. Enlightened companies realize the value of these things and integrate these into their core mission. However, most implement these strategies based on government regulations: OSHA, FMLA, ADA, EPA, etc.
I agree, here here to the Rockets, but those damn muslims.....j/k icedog. Icedog, you'll be relieved to know that 2 of my very best friends are muslim, my other best friend jewish and I a right winged mexican. In the end, they are close friends and I love them like brothers. But do they agree with America, it is questionable in my experience. I tend not to talk out my ass, but rather, experience or at the very least some wikipedia research, but can you understand my personal experience. Here I have 2 guys that I literally went to hell and back with, yet I know for a fact that they don't like America the way I do. They enjoy the same freedoms and good times I do, but there is a level of dissent. Why? B/c there are people behind the scenes that really run the country and negatively affect their homeland?
ICE, I'm not an anarchist, I believe government must exist to protect individual rights and private property. Those are pillars that exist in a free society. When I said that no person or organization has the right to define or control you, I spoke what is true. In a free society, there should be no limits on what you can achieve in your existence. America has been a supporter of that. To protect that, I would sacrifice my life.
OK, but 3 is a small sample. When I talk about Muslim friends/contacts, I'm talking about 20-30 people who I was in regular contact with (or still am, in 10 of the cases). And we talk a lot about these types of things. Sure, there are some that are overly critical of America, and some of them really do need to shut their yaps and appreciate what they've got. But the majority I've been close to- and from what they've said of their friends and family- are very appreciative of the U.S. and horrified at extremist Islam. I just feel like there's a lot of gray areas that just cannot be explained in simple black-and-white. It's the contradiction you see when, during the primaries, the Republican and Democrat candidates talk about how bad each other's policies are, then turn right around and support the winning candidate 100%. Or how the Democrats are anti-capital punishment and pro-abortion while they fail to acknowledge the victim's rights as equal. Or how the Republicans talk about reducing the national debt, then see it run to record heights under Presidents like Reagan and Bush. I see value and areas for improvement in both; yet when I point this out, I'm called "weak." As if using one's critical faculties were a sign of weakness. Pathetic. As a business owner, I'm all about freedom, don't like to pay extra taxes (but I'm good about documenting my business expenses, so my taxes are pretty cool), and do think that some are very lazy when it comes to work and their career. At the same time, I'll gladly pay more in taxes if it's used for a beneficial domestic program, feel that with freedom, comes responsibility, and understand that some are hit with unfortunate circumstances and need assistance in the form of government programs. It's just a constant struggle to see both sides equally and try to think of a common ground. Very tough.
I don't particularly believe in a two party system, in fact I think it's bs, yet we live in the most powerful nation this world has ever known. It's obviously been set up in a way that people can excel in what they're good at and get paid for doing it. I fundamentally disagree with social programs run by a government, it is unsustainable on a large scale. I do believe in compassion for people b/c I think people are imperfect and we fall and hopefully we get up. However, I don't think government is the answer. I try to maintain a secular view when it comes to politics, but there is no question in my mind that Americans are people of faith. Combine that with an education which this country offers second to none, I think we have willing and able people to give out of their hearts not out of force. Why are there countless shelters run in the name of faith in this country who truly help those less fortunate? B/c you try to practice what you preach. I surely am not saying all churchgoers are good and selfless creatures b/c they are not. I think the problem is that when people speak of faith, there is a sentiment and thought of some whacko preacher in the east TX condemning his congregation as sinners and hellbound and that's exactly what the media has tried to engrain in people's minds. That's just not the truth. My point is, people in this country are good folks and are willing to give and that is derived from faith not government. And I think the folks that have truly fallen benefit the most from this type of "social assistance". Now, for the rest of us that work and lost our jobs, we've got some systems set up to help us such as unemployment. That is the only type of government program I can get behind but definitely to an extent. But I think persistence and an entrepreneurial spirit gets the workers through the tough times.
