Billy Wagner rips former Phillies teammates

By how much better? I said the numbers rivaled one another, and to say "Billy was better 7 times" could possibly count four or five times when Billy was better by percentage points. That's "rivaling"; IOW, I did *not* say, "better".

Additionally, the language you employ here can be misleading -- "Billy beat this 7 times and that 4 times"--he's had 10 years to best Lidge's 2 seasons, one would assume he's done better multiple times. Unless he's Mitch Williams.

 

How well did Billy *ever* do in the playoffs?

 

How well did Lidge do in his last 7 playoff games? Let me help - 6 ER in 8.66 IP for an ERA of 6.23.

And my point about Wagner was to show how he's been good for a decade. There's nothing special about a guy having a couple of good years.

 

I'm not arguing that Lidge is better than Wagner--although if he goes 10 years there may be an argument later on.

I'm only pointing out the following:
1) Despite Lidge's meltdown from Game 5 onward in 2005, dude has enjoyed some serious playoff success and some dominant, heroic (wrong word) performances in the playoffs. He shut STL down for like 3 innings back in '04. No one can discount or downplay Lidge in '04. It is up there with the greatest playoff performances in history. Wagner, on the other, has precisely zero success in the playoffs. That doesn't mean Lidge is better (because right now he's not), but pointing to the Pujols bomb and the Podsednik bomb and saying, "See!?" isn't really a valid point when Wags has done *nothing*.

2) Lidge is not done. Equating him with Billy Wagner's career right now is ridiculous; however the '04 and '05 seasons were certainly comparable--the only thing Lidge lacks is longevity and overcoming adversity. We'll see it plays out.

 

it's just amazing to me how quick people want to write off brad lidge.

 

I am certainly not writing him off, but to not recognize that a guy is struggling with a 6+ ERA is just being blind.

Hitters are onto him, they are laying off the slider, and his fastball has ZERO movement it is straight as an arrow and right now he is not placing it well.

He had a curveball, I would love for him to dust it off and use it.

DD

 

Who hasn't recognized that?

 

He hasn't had arm problems since the Stros told him to ditch the curve.

 

and when he throws the slider for strikes he's nasty.

he's been inconsistent in that regard. it's a control issue. i'm convinced he'll fix it.

 

I'm still waiting to see if they find a mechanics issue.

 

i thought they already did.

 

I've been out of pocket and probably missed it. What did they find? How does he look--is he dropping his elbow or something?

 

someone else would have to find it. i'm thinking i read it here, though.

maybe Buck posted something???

 

I’m not writing Lidge off, but I am acknowledging just how brutal he’s been. I guess I’m also a little frustrated with the people dismissing Wagner. We know how great Lidge has been until this year, but let’s not overlook what Billy has done. If you compare them through 28, they are very similar, but Brad will have to have a number of good seasons from here on out to match what Wagner has done in his career. Sorry about the formatting, maybe I can clean it up later.

HTML:

[pre]  
        BW  through 2000    BL  through 2005      BW  2001-05
Saves      107                          72                177
ERA       2.73                         2.71                2.14
WHIP     1.11                         1.12                  .90
BAVG     .187                         .198                .181
IP         280                         259                    350
K/9IP    13.55                      12.82                  10.76
BB/9IP    4.05                      3.61                     2.34
HR/9IP    0.90                      0.66                     0.80[/pre]

 

Now this I agree with completely. Nice stats line, btw; I was admittedly too busy (read: too lazy) to go get it myself.

As far as writing Wagner off, I agree it would be an error to do so (he's one of the best in the league for 10 years running, that's tremendous). I think, however, it's a defensible statement to say the Astros don't need Wagner--at least it seemed that way before Lidge had this brutal stretch, Wheeler began pitching like crap, and the starters not being quite the super-dominant group they were last year.

 

Right. At this point it's all spilled milk with regards to the Astros and Wagner, and certainly the Astros have done well without him.

 

I simply don't get it.. And, I'm rather curious...

Why is that Lidge needs 'another pitch' to get back to form? Is that to insinuate, his recent problems since last year's playoffs, stem from a lack of a 'third pitch' or 'off speed' pitch? Or, what does it mean..? What do you mean by it?

What is it about Lidge and his problems, that calls for a much needed 'third pitch', while already possessing two outstanding pitches..? While Wagner has built his consistent regular season success with a fastball, and Mariano has built same, and postseason success with a cutter?

Why can those two make due with only ONE outstanding pitch, and Lidge can't do with two?

I'm just curious, 'cause, i don't know..

Little help?

 

Here we go again, Lidge is struggling to close out a 4-1 game....4-2 now with the bases loaded.....he has given up one hit and 3 FRICKEN WALKS !!

Garner is yanking him. His confidence is shot.

DD