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Billy Wagner rips former Phillies teammates

Discussion in 'Houston Astros' started by bobrek, May 8, 2006.

  1. MadMax

    MadMax Contributing Member

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    exaggerate much?
     
  2. gwayneco

    gwayneco Contributing Member

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    Have you seen the guy pitch this year? An average major league pitcher will pitch a shutout inning 70% of the time, but Lidge has allowed a run in 7 of his 17 games.
     
  3. Rocketman95

    Rocketman95 Hangout Boy

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    Can you explain how a pitcher can have 11 saves without getting anyone out?
     
  4. MadMax

    MadMax Contributing Member

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    i don't think i've missed even one of the games he's pitched in.

    he's gotten outs. he's still striking people out, as well.
     
  5. gwayneco

    gwayneco Contributing Member

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    The Save stat is stupid. Surely you knew this already.
     
  6. MadMax

    MadMax Contributing Member

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    really????

    dude, that's his job. his job is to come in games and close them out. i don't care if he gives up a run everytime he has a 2 run lead, as long as that's all he gives up and they win.
     
  7. msn

    msn Member

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    Agreed. And it would be a very strong argument.

    Two good years? Try two amazing, incredibly dominant years. Again, his stats rivaled those from Billy's best years. And for heaven's sake already, Lidge is not Mitch freaking Williams.
     
  8. msn

    msn Member

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    To be fair, his save numbers are a little deceptive as his performance has been nowhere near -- not even close to -- his usual self. His ERA is at least double what one expects from a closer.

    These things tend to average out. Unless really is Mitch Williams, he'll be fine.
     
  9. MadMax

    MadMax Contributing Member

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    i couldn't agree more. he's clearly not himself right now.

    having said, that, if he keeps closing out games at this rate he'll finish with over 40 saves for the season. call that deceptive..or a dumb stat..or whatever. but that's how we measure closers.
     
  10. msn

    msn Member

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    Yes, but if he keeps performing in this manner, due to how things average out, his saves will most certainly slow down. The other factor is, if the Astros as a team slump the rest of May as they have this past week, he'll get far fewer saves as well.
     
  11. Rocketman95

    Rocketman95 Hangout Boy

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    I still didn't know you could get one without recording an out.
     
  12. gwayneco

    gwayneco Contributing Member

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    Come again? Lidge's best in terms of WHIP was 0.92 in 2004. Wagner has beaten that mark 4 times. In 2005 Lidge's WHIP was 1.15 and Billy has bettered that mark 7 times. Wagner has bettered Lidge's 2004 Batting Average Against of .174 4 times. He has bettered Lidge's 2005 OAvg of .223 9 times. He has bettered Lidge's 2004 K/9IP of 14.92 1 time. He has bettered Lidge's 2005 K rate of 13.12 3 times.
     
  13. gwayneco

    gwayneco Contributing Member

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    It's not a very smart way of measuring them.
     
  14. MadMax

    MadMax Contributing Member

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    if the team wins the game because he nails it down, i'm fine with it.
     
  15. gwayneco

    gwayneco Contributing Member

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    Yeah, I'm exaggerating. But Lidge has only retired 61.5% of the hitters he's faced this year, and that's no exaggeration.
     
  16. Drewdog

    Drewdog Contributing Member

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    Ive lost a little confidence in Lidge, but the dude still has 11 saves. Hes been rock solid every year.

    One thing I absolutely HATE is when Lidge gives up a big hit, HR, or something like that he does the crouching tiger squat...... Annoying.
     
  17. gwayneco

    gwayneco Contributing Member

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    Mitch Williams 1994 - WHIP 2.25, ERA 7.65
    Brad Lidge 2006 - WHIP 1.81, ERA 6.19

    Do I think he's Mitch Williams? No, but he's pitching about as badly as Mitch right now.
     
  18. DaDakota

    DaDakota If you want to know, just ask!

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    I am more annoyed at the hit, than the squat.

    Lidge has been WAY BELOW par this year, and is lucky to have 11 saves, many of them he had more than a 1 run lead, and several he let the other team get within one run before closing the door.

    He has been bad, his stuff is still nasty, but I think the hitters are reading it now....and just not swinging at anything but the fastball.

    If he added a change up or curveball, he would be MUCH more effective....I wonder why Roger hasn't taught him the split finger?

    He needs an off speed pitch...both his fastball and slider are in the 90s, he needs one in the 70s to keep hitters off their timing.

    DD

    DD
     
  19. bobrek

    bobrek Politics belong in the D & D

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    How did Wagner do in the 2004 playoffs? Oh right, since he wasn't in them, how did he do when he did pitch in the playoffs?

    I'll help - he has faced 23 batters and 8 reached by a hit. He also hit a batter. His playoff ERA is 7.71. He has 0 saves in 5 appearances. He did get the win in his 1998 appearance after he blew the save in the top of the 9th. When he entered the game in 2001 it was 3-3 in the 8th with 2 runners on. Chipper Jones promptly homered off of him.
     
  20. gwayneco

    gwayneco Contributing Member

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    Yep, he's struggled in the playoffs. By the way, how's Lidge done in that regard since Albert jacked his bomb?
     

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