He thought he was a starter. He's got two pitches, and yet argued and moaned with the Astros coaching staff and development guys about this for a year or two. "I'm a starter," I read in the paper several times. I remember the interview a couple of years into closing where he finally had to admit the move had been pretty good to him. Dude never gets a 1 million dollar paycheck, much less 8, if he remains a "starter".
I read this in the local paper yesterday morning and meant to post it, but forgot. You've got to read the whole Inquirer article. Wagner and his mouth are just to rich... Love the part about guys on the Stros calling to console him after he gave up Biggio's HR during last year's stretch run. Of course guys on the Stros called to talk him off the ledge -- we won the game! http://www.philly.com/mld/philly/sports/14521728.htm Wagner tosses verbal fire at the Phils The Mets closer says it was "24 against one" in the clubhouse last season. By Jim Salisbury Inquirer Staff Writer NEW YORK - Three days before returning to Citizens Bank Park in a New York Mets uniform, outspoken former Phillies closer Billy Wagner yesterday painted a grim picture of his final weeks in the team's clubhouse last year. "I knew I was not well-liked there," he said, referring to his former teammates. "I felt like an outsider." Worse, Wagner said, he got the feeling late in the season that his teammates, whom he described as overly sensitive about media coverage, were just waiting to see him fail. Wagner said he became "everyone's least favorite Phillie in the clubhouse" after he called his teammates on the carpet for their spiritless play in an interview that appeared July 1 in The Inquirer. In response to Wagner's critical comments, former teammate Kenny Lofton called a team meeting in the weight room. Wagner described the meeting as "24 against one," and added that Pat Burrell called him a "rat" during the meeting. "I had no problem with what was said to me," Wagner said. "It was their right. I can take criticism." Wagner said manager Charlie Manuel had no qualms with what the closer said in the interview. In fact, Wagner said, there were several occasions last season when Manuel, frustrated with the team's lackadaisical play, urged Wagner to step up and say something to rouse teammates. Told of Wagner's comment, Manuel said: "The only thing I ever said to Billy was, 'If you've got something to say, say it.' If he took it that way, I don't know why." Six days ago, Manuel did his own talking and erupted on this year's team in the dugout in Miami. For Wagner, that brought back memories of his speaking out last year. "Me and Placido Polanco used to talk about it all the time last year," Wagner said. "Something needed to be said. I was trying to be a leader. I wasn't trying to say, 'You stink.' I was trying to say, 'We need to get going.' I wanted to win. "Charlie was great. He always had my back." Wagner said some of his former teammates did not have his back, and he sensed they believed he deserved his late-season failures against Houston. He was the losing pitcher on Sept. 6 and 7. On Sept. 7, in the heat of a pennant race, he surrendered a two-out, ninth-inning, three-run home run to Houston's Craig Biggio after David Bell committed an error to extend the game. The Phillies lost, 8-6. "After I called them out, they were waiting for me to fall flat," Wagner said. "In my mind, when I went out to the mound, they were waiting for me to go in the tank. I could be wrong, but that's the feeling I got." Pitcher Brett Myers reacted angrily to that observation. "That's a stupid comment," Myers said. "I can't believe he said that. We missed the playoffs by one game last year. Yeah, we cared if he blew a save. Maybe he didn't care. Maybe that was it. Maybe that's why he's saying this. That's a cop-out." After blowing the save against Houston on Sept. 7, Wagner said only one person stopped by his locker to show him support - Manuel. "I heard from more Astros players," Wagner said. "Guys from Houston called me and said, 'Keep going.' " Wagner said he was hurt by his teammates' lack of support and added that he's loving life with the Mets because the team is like a family. "There was no support there," he said of the Phillies' clubhouse. "As soon as the game was over, everyone was gone and I was there by myself." Wagner saved 38 games and blew just three last season. After games, good or bad, he always was available to speak with reporters. He still wonders why he and the game's starting pitchers (except for Vicente Padilla) were often the only ones willing to do that. "They worry too much about the media," Wagner said. "Not every player is going to have a good season, and when you can't handle criticism, it makes it harder. Sometimes guys felt the media was after them. If they had a good game, they'd say, '[Forget] them. Boycott them.' It was frustrating because the starting pitcher and I always had to go out there and take the beating." His complaints about his former teammates aside, Wagner said playing in Philadelphia was a good experience, that it toughened his skin. He added that he has some good relationships with people in Philadelphia and is looking forward to seeing old teammates Jimmy Rollins, Chase Utley, Jon Lieber and Bobby Abreu. He did not mention Burrell. There's no love lost there. Wagner will not fire any warning shots at Burrell if he faces him in the three-game series, which begins Tuesday. "I don't play silly games," he said. "I'll just have to get him out. I'm sure it would mean more to him to hit a home run off me than it would to me to get him out. But it'll be a long [home-run] trot if he does hit one out. I wouldn't expect anything else." Said Burrell: "Billy's one of the best closers in the game. I really have nothing to say. Hopefully, he's happier over there."
Regardless of how many might feel about Billy,I have to say it's still refreshing to hear about that feeling of family and professionalism that has almost always been abundant in the Astros clubhouse.
This is probably the game you are thinking about which was 2 months into his rookie season (he also worked the 8th inning) GIANTS 9TH: Wilkins reached on an error by Gutierrez [Wilkins to first]; Canizaro was called out on strikes; Cruz walked [Wilkins to second]; Dunston singled to center [Wilkins to third, Cruz to second]; Benard reached on an error by Gutierrez [Wilkins scored (unearned), Cruz to third, Dunston to second, Benard to first (error by Gutierrez; assist by Biggio)]; ESTES RAN FOR DUNSTON; Bonds was called out on strikes; M. Williams struck out;
Your opinion is wrong. Lidge will be just fine, provided they don't panic and give up on him. Lidge is the man.
Yep, that's it. My memory is a little fuzzy due to a number of things, including, but not limited to, the amount of alcohol consumed at that particular game... BTW, where did you find that?
I hope you're right. I love Lidge as much as any of you guys. I just keep waiting, & waiting, & waiting ... I agree with giving a guy a chance to work through his troubles, but comes a time, man ... there-comes-a-time.
Wagner is one of the best closers of our generation, you haters can say all you want about him, this kid is EXACTLY what you need in pressure situations. Yes, he has his faults, but I will take 'over-confidence' over a player who wakes up in cold sweat after reliving the Pujols bomb in his dreams. He has a big mouth, that's for sure, but you take the good with the bad when it comes to elite players.
Let him save a game in the post-season... where the pressure is amped up by a 1000.... and then he may crack the list of greatest closers ever. Hell, let me just see him be a LEADER... a guy who puts a team on his back and gets them to the post-season... a guy who doesn't constantly blame ownership or his teammates for his team's struggles, but actually takes the blame himself sometimes. He's had a whole lot of regular season success... made a whole lot of money... but when given the chance with the Astros, he blew chunks in the playoffs... and when given the chance to lead the Phillies there, he blew it all again. He's been terribly consistent over the years, accumulating a bunch of saves... mainly because he's been on tremendously good teams to help him get all those saves... and make all that money. Without Lidge, the 2004 team doesn't even see the playoffs... let alone the NLCS. He helped mask a rotation that had a guy who'd never started before (Backe), a hobbled post-surgical candidate (Hernandez) and a mediocre veteran (Munro) and helped will that team to a 36-10 finish. Not to mention that he's saved (or won) 6 out of the 7 NLCS victories that this team has ever had. Billy's had all the opportunities and resources and good teams in the world to do something with his career... and he's never failed to burn or insult those teams that gave him the chance to do it. That says something about a guy... more than all the saves he's accumulated, money he's taken, or playoff games he hasn't won. You don't even need to be a "hater"... whatever that is. Just look at the facts... look at the statistics... look at the salaries... look at how the guy continues to pop his nose and stir controversy thru the media. I'd love Billy to just go about his career, make his $10 million more a year, and try to get into the playoffs and have real success... but its becoming harder and harder to do that when he just keeps on opening his mouth.
We will see how he does with this Mets team. He has his faults, I am not denying it, but to compare Lidge to him is beyond silly. Wagner has been consistently good and solid for a long time, Lidge is falling apart this soon into his ML career, I hope he recovers and does great for the Astros for years to come, but I have strong doubts about that.
Why wouldn't I compare him to Lidge? He was basically the closer right after Wagner left... Wagner's successor. He was basically the guy that helped turn around a disaster 2004 season, and help this team win close game after close game on a run that might never be seen again. He was MORE dominant, struck more fear, and saved more games in the playoffs at his peak, than Billy Wagner ever did. Wagner definitely has longevity and stats... hell, pitching for all those good teams, he wouldn't even be in the league anymore if he wasn't able to save a bunch of games for them. But, what good are all those years/saves/money, if you couldn't do it when it counted... and you always blamed everybody but yourself for it? One thing Lidge never did was either get a big head after his astronomical run of success... nor did he ever fail to take the blame for games that he wasn't his best in. Billy said in the article that he basically wants/needs "hugs and kisses" when he loses a game... all Brad wants is the freakin ball to go back out there and try and redeem himself. Letting his teammates down is the biggest fear that Lidge has... but with Wagner, its apparently his teammates/ownership that always lets him down... not vice versa. Also, to give up on Lidge now would be ridiculous... it would be almost equivalent to (but not as bad as) the Rockets deciding to waive T-Mac because they believe he'll never be dominant again. Both guys will likely never have the "umph" in them that they did at one point in their Houston careers... but if you think that what he has now is worthless, you're way too spoiled by the greatness he was able to display when he was thrust right onto the big-stage.
I like the Wagner trade for the Astros, but some of y'all are letting your dislike for his comments get in the way of your baseball judgment. You could make a very strong case that over the last ten years he has been the best closer not named Mariano. Lidge (Wild Thing II) has had two good years and now he can't get anybody out.
