Biggest difference between today's NBA vs yesteryear

I will concede the athleticism depth today vs yesteryear, but fans don't pay money to go watch the 6-12 players on the bench. They pay money to see stars play and play at the highest level against other stars. Who cares about the athleticism of 10th, 11th, or 12th guys on the bench?

In that regard, the NBA may have more athletic depth on the bench today....but the stars are not better. In fact, I submit, they are considerably worse. The things that make you want to buy a ticket to go see the Knicks for example...just isn't there.

Stars bring in the money...and today's NBA is considerably lacking in comparison to yesteryears.

 

There ya go! Oh, & you're showing our ages now! :grin:

 

Is there a reason why you didn't highlight the two most important World Records for basketball skills, which also happen to be the top 5 oldest records on the books.

I edited your list...

So, High Jump and Long Jump (the ability to jump) are two of the longest standing records in the world. To this day, Bob Beamon 24-yr old record is still second to Jim Powell WR st in 1991 (which is now 24 yrs old). So, in 48yr, only one person bests Bob Beamon

The High Jump record is 22 years old.

So, you can't say Olympics records have anything to do with Basketball, because bball is a skill sport.

Height is also the primary "skill" that trumps all. And that doesn't change with training. It only changes with the influx of a larger pool of players...and that is due to a change in the geopolitical landscape and the new Money pouring into the NBA since Wilt's era. Hell, since the '80s.

The athleticism that makes a difference in Bball has always been there. What makes more of it available is MONEY. $$$$$$

$$$$ should be in this poll as well. Money brings athletes. Hell, that's why Euroleague players have moved here...because of money.

 

punch cards
we're talking about punch cards

 

The stars are not worse than in the past. Those 6-12 players you are talking about have gotten better and are more athletic than in the past. They have closed the gap some.

It is now harder for super stars to completely take over games. One reason is because of the depth now. Another is because of rule changes.

The rule changes created a style of basketball that is less effective to pass to the superstar and let him work in isolation. Before the rule changes, the NBA was much more isolation heavy and easier for the super star player to put up a bunch of points.

 

My point was that in the 90's and '00's, athletes are on a different level.

I said the freak athletes from the 90's are comparable to the freak athletes of today.

My argument wasn't that Michael Jordan and David Robinson aren't as athletic as players today. My argument is that the depth is much greater today.

 

But, perimeter players still lead the league in scoring every year. The scoring of Centers have noticeably dropped off.

In the '90s, we had centers leading the league in scoring, and they were always double teamed. The ISO era didn't help them.

As I said earlier, the rules change to eliminate hand-checking arguably offsets the eradication of illegal defense. And the lack of big men makes it easier for the perimeter players nowadays as well.

 

agree...but your fundamental point of showing how WRs are very new was to say that new training has increased the pool. But showing WRs doesn't illustrate that at all -- as shown by the Long Jump and High Jump records.

It is money and the breaking down of the Wall that has increased the talent pool -- not advanced, high tech training of HS basketball students in the US.

 

At the Olympic level, yes, new training has created better athletes. There won't be a world of difference from the 90's to now, but from, say, the 60's for example, the training methods today make better athletes.

But, that really wasn't my point anyway. My point was about the talent pool and how that makes for deeper rosters athletically in all sports. With the best of the best in the Olympics, the increased talent pool makes it more likely there is a guy out there today who can break the records of the past. Plus, the training now may help shave milliseconds off of their time that athletes of the past couldn't take advantage of.

It's not as if humans evolved since 1991. So it's not surprising that there are world records still from that time, such as the long jump. The talent pool today hasn't found a guy who was better than Mike Powell.

 

Aren't the training breakthroughs to set WRs also to realize the importance of diets and tampering off training before attempting to break the record--at least for T&F? Also, knowing how to prevent injuries better...so sports medicine.

Yeah, I agree with you. But none of that is really available to HS basketball players.

My main point is to not dismiss the importance of a larger talent pool related more to money and geopolitics than a larger pool due to training of USA high school players and (much less) NBA players when they have to play a 82-game schedule.

 

It was much easier to get to the rim and score before the rule change. It kept the lane open, and it was by design because fans like scoring.

People completely exaggerate the effect hand-checking had back then.

There hasn't been a player since 2009, when defenses were really getting good, score more than 28 points a game except for Kevin Durant a couple times and Carmelo Anthony once.

Defenses are just better right now.

 

A lot of athletic records are still from the 80's and 90's and its mainly to do with increased drug testing regimes.

 

It is available to high school basketball players. Many players go to performance centers outside of their high school basketball team.

And I'm not dismissing the talent pool. That was my main point.

 

Yes, this is good theory and logic, but facts do not support this. The scoring leaders of the last ten years (not just #1 but all Top 10) have shifted from centers and PFs. Let me explain why this happened in an era of no illegal defense.

NBA coaches adjusted to the rules that favored interior defense by shooting more three pointers ever in the history of the game -- BY FAR.

They had to adjust to the rules by spreading the floor. It is also why passing offenses are showing more success -- because they become relatively better than other offenses when zones (and aggressive double teams in man) are allowed.

The three point shot also increases the value of long, athletic 3 and D players. They now have a bigger role in the NBA than ever before.

 

Like...?

 

jumping and throwing are the two sports types that come to mind as most benefited by peds, while it benefits all of them, they're the ones that come to mind where the records could last for a very long time because of the drastic advantages outweigh other future improvements.

To make it even more obvious, the women's (where the drugs make an even more profound impact) record will likely be held by some eastern european, with some result so far ahead of anyone today that it's almost comical to suggest that it was clean.

 

and that takes money, right?

But your point was about advanced training/athleticism. The reason the talent pool increased is more about the influx of American talent and foreign players driven by geopolitics and the increase of money in the NBA vs yesteryear. And also part of the reason is the increased need for 3 and Ds.

 

Back then you had to commit to the double or stay on your man. You couldn't cheat off your man. Back then players could literally clear out one side of the floor and go one on one, and the defenders would have to follow their man to the other side of the floor.

If a player was at the top of the key, the defender was not allowed below the free throw line. That would completely clear out the paint.

It was easier for big men to work when players either had to commit to the double team or stay home on their man. They could see it coming. Now, players can be anywhere on the floor, and things are more crowded with more help for the defenders. It's harder for big men to score.

Now-a-days, there is a such thing as packing the paint. It makes it harder to score at the rim.

 

This is true. It is especially evident with the women.

I think I remember women's swimming being dominated by the Soviets because they were all loaded up on steroids.

 

My original point was not about advanced training and athleticism. Where did you get that from?

I talked about it after you brought it up, but that was not part of my original point.

And about the performance centers... yes, that takes money. But it IS available to high school kids, and many high school kids go to them. You said those things weren't available to high school kids.

And exceptional high school players may get free training because it's good for their business.