How dare you lump Dwyer in with Solomon. That is disgraceful. KD watches more basketball than just about any other person in the media and doesn't get half the credit he deserves. We can't really knock his rankings til we see the complete list but I'd care to wager he is spot on with assessment. I think his argument is misguided, my disenchantment with Brooks resides in his defense, late game dedcision making, and ability to create with the pass, none of which KD touched on. I have to agree with the previous post here that Sessions is ranked way too high, based on one year where he had free reign over a Milwaukee offense in complete disarray. And even that year was marred with horrible inconsistency. The one player I fear will come on this list is a joke... Jason Kidd. I would say seven or eight of the PGs already named trump Kidd. Put him where Conley is and then I might grit my teeth and accept it. Lets fill out the remaining 20... 1. Paul 2. D. Williams 3. Nash 4. Rondo 5. Rose 6. Curry or Ellis 7. Westbrook 8. Billups 9. Andre Miller 10. Jameer Nelson 11. Collison 12. John Wall 13. Tyreke Evans 14. Tony Parker 15. Baron Davis 16. Mo Williams 17. Kidd 18. Brandon Jennings 19. Devin Harris I would say you could make an argument for Brooks over 4 or 5 of these guys. Also obviously these are not ranked in correct order, just off the top of my head
Its different when you play in Adelman's offense. Everyone is responsible for creating shots. Bibby only averaged about 5 assist a game when he was on the Kings. Webber was actually their assist leader.
20 seems steep but not unreasonable, top 15 sounds right to me. People overvalue the little guy to much, his size and defense will make him a liability unless he becomes the shooter Steve Nash become or the finisher Tony Parker evolved to and that just to offset those prior stated liabilities.
...Stopped reading when I read John Wall. Can't we at least wait until he checks into an NBA game before putting him in the top 15...
Uhh ... Kelly IS a member of this very board ... ... and he's no Solomon ... You don't get to write for Sports Illustrated without some serious talent and competence. Actually, I'm sorta proud he's a member here.
That is just an excuse. Lowry would averaged 7 assists given the same minutes under the same system. Terry Porter averaged close to 10 assits per game under Adelman with Drexter taking a lot ball handling responsibility. We all know passing is not the strength of AB. He is average starting PG, around 15 is about right at this moment.
this is just a plain insult to Kelly and all the hard work he does, YOU may not agree with his opinions here but the guy puts in far more work and research than every other basketball writer out there and it shows. Clearly his work and opinion mean more than the others (including myself) on this board otherwise a internationally known company like Yahoo would not have hired him to be one of the lead basketball content writers on their site. The guy watches every single or almost every single game during the season (not just the rockets) and knows how good the other teams players are instead of just having a myopic view of just 1-2 teams. During the season he writes, even if its a small paragraph, about every game the night before with something that is different from the AP recap. What other writer out in the media does that? To say that his opinion is the same as solomon's (and YES that is what you are implying here but saying that they both get paid to write - dont even try to spin it with your winking smiley saying it was a joke) is terrible Thats like me saying I know just as much about the video game industry as you because I played Mario when I was a kid when clearly that isnt the case when you have the years of experience of working in the industry and I just play the games. Kelly does his homework and then some and is passionate about basketball, more passionate than everyone here I would say Solomon just wants hits so he just throws anything stupid thing out there and hopes it sticks And of course you'll retort back to me saying i am a "suck up" etc fine whatever works for you, but Kelly puts in a lot of dedication to his work and even if you dont agree with it that, his work should be respected for that reason alone.
A - fricken - men. 100% spot on, look at Bibby's numbers in Sacremento for comparison to Brook's role on this team. It is staggering how people completely miss this point, consistently. Also, Brooks assists etc went up when CBud or Martin were put in the lineup over Trevor or Shane....I guess having guys to pass to that can finish at a decent rate helps the ole assist numbers too. But overall, in Adelman's offense, he is not going to have tons of assists, the assists will be spread out over the entire team. DD
here's the next 10 ... 20-11 20. Calderon 19. Mo Williams 18. Lou Williams 17. Balls to the Wall 16. Collison 15. Jennings 14. Andre Miller 13. Steph Curry 12. Kidd 11. Jameer Nelson
Bibby wasn't getting high assists either after he no longer plays for Adelman. At the same time, look at Bibby's TOs compare to ABs. The ast/to ratio of AB is really one of the worst among NBA pgs. That's a better indication of how good a passer he is than just look at the assist number alone.
I just don't know. When your putting guys on losing Eastern conference teams over a guy who was the first option on a decimated winning team in the western conference, something doesn't add up.
Let's break it down..... What? He puts in more work than any other writer out there? And they call me Mr. Hyperbole. Oh, please, there are tons of intelligent basketball fans all over the world who know as much or more than he does, but choose other professions. I am happy for Kelly and his career, he seems to be doing well, but that doesn't mean he is always right, and his job is the same as all other writers, to drive "CLICKS" to his website, to make them money, otherwise, they would replace him stat. You are making massive assumptions, it could be that interns or others watch all those games and give Yahoo recaps that he edits. Or, he watches them all, I don't know, and not sure how you do either. You just have a burr in your saddle big fella for me, any chance you get to argue, you jump.....nay LEAP at it, and take the furthest position away you can.... The Solomon point was an extreme one to show people that just because you are a writer doesn't mean you know the subject material all that well. We are not talking about anyone that PLAYED in the NBA, we are talking about observers, who are writing about what they observe. A more apt comparison would be you saying you knew more than someone who writes about Games for a games mag....and man, would I be on your side there....lol Oh good lord, does he reply to your emails so you somehow feel connected to a real sports writer or something? Come on.....more passionate than everyone here.......that is a big statement that is just flat out fluffy. Ranking artilces are meant to drive hits, it is a personal preference, nothing more...... Dude, you do suck up...probably because you go back and forth with him in email or on twitter, in the modern world, so you feel you have to get his back. That is silly, it is their job to interact with folks, it helps draw clicks or hits to their site. Wake up and smell the coffee YoYo. Ah, and another DDingleberry comes in to toss in a quick frag grenade...maybe you guys can rep each other back and forth....lol. Let's hear from the rest of the DDinglberry brigade. DD
YoYo vs. DD: TL;DR. My opinion obviously differs from KD here. I would have trouble placing Brooks in the top 10, but he's definitely better than several of the guys he put in 11-20.
Among PG's last year, Brooks was 10th in usage, 24th in PER, 59th in assist ratio, 21s in TS%, 62nd in rebound rate, and 13th in estimated wins added. http://insider.espn.go.com/nba/hollinger/statistics/_/position/pg/sort/VORPe
Some statistical rankings, amongst PGs who played at least 40 games last year and at least 20 minutes per game: http://www.hoopdata.com/advancedstats.aspx?team=%&type=pm&posi=PG&yr=2010&gp=40&mins=20 MPG: Brooks (8th), Lowry (33rd) USG: Brooks (7th), Lowry (30th) TS%: Brooks (17th), Lowry (22nd) %Ast: Brooks (30th), Lowry (23rd) AR: Brooks (37th), Lowry (8th) TOR: Brooks (18th), Lowry (27th) TRR: Brooks (40th), Lowry (2nd) EFF: Brooks (26th), Lowry (16th) WS: Brooks (36th), Lowry (11th) AWS: Brooks (25th), Lowry (23rd) PER: Brooks (22nd), Lowry (25th) APER: Brooks (21st), Lowry (16th) Mouse over the head row in the link for explanation of each stat. EFF, WS, and AWS are per minute rankings.
