I don't know... This is from the transcript of his speech: (For context, before my cut he's talking about all the things that have been done since 9/11.) It seems to me that his second paragraph is him taking credit and implying that he had to change things in order to make this happen because the prior administration had not succeeded. Understanding the English language leads to an interpretation of "and so shortly after taking office" to mean "and so when I got here I changed things from the failed way they were being done." The truth as it turns out, is that Obama came into office with the CIA already having this courier in their sights, following him and waiting for him to lead them to Osama.
Obama said he would get bin laden and bush said so then flip flopped later. Sounds like the same junk they were trying to run about kerry.... and the 'less safe' and the 'flip flopper' was bush ! Good distraction job GOP! I have to give credit they got their head puppet to lay the trap for big oil and halliburton. So back to Obama (aka DA MAN), here he is laying smack down letting all of us know what he WAS GOING TO DO. Not just BS words: From the second presidential debate between Senator Barack Obama and Senator John McCain "QUESTION: Should the United States respect Pakistani sovereignty and not pursue al Qaeda terrorists who maintain bases there, or should we ignore their borders and pursue our enemies like we did in Cambodia during the Vietnam War? OBAMA: Katie, it's a terrific question and we have a difficult situation in Pakistan. I believe that part of the reason we have a difficult situation is because we made a bad judgment going into Iraq in the first place when we hadn't finished the job of hunting down bin Laden and crushing al Qaeda. So what happened was we got distracted, we diverted resources, and ultimately bin Laden escaped, set up base camps in the mountains of Pakistan in the northwest provinces there. They are now raiding our troops in Afghanistan, destabilizing the situation. They're stronger now than at any time since 2001. And that's why I think it's so important for us to reverse course, because that's the central front on terrorism. They are plotting to kill Americans right now. As Secretary Gates, the defense secretary, said, the war against terrorism began in that region and that's where it will end. So part of the reason I think it's so important for us to end the war in Iraq is to be able to get more troops into Afghanistan, put more pressure on the Afghan government to do what it needs to do, eliminate some of the drug trafficking that's funding terrorism. But I do believe that we have to change our policies with Pakistan. We can't coddle, as we did, a dictator, give him billions of dollars and then he's making peace treaties with the Taliban and militants. OBAMA: What I've said is we're going to encourage democracy in Pakistan, expand our nonmilitary aid to Pakistan so that they have more of a stake in working with us, but insisting that they go after these militants. And if we have Osama bin Laden in our sights and the Pakistani government is unable or unwilling to take them out, then I think that we have to act and we will take them out. We will kill bin Laden; we will crush Al Qaida. That has to be our biggest national security priority. BROKAW: Senator McCain? MCCAIN: Well, Katie, thank you. You know, my hero is a guy named Teddy Roosevelt. Teddy Roosevelt used to say walk softly -- talk softly, but carry a big stick. Senator Obama likes to talk loudly. In fact, he said he wants to announce that he's going to attack Pakistan. Remarkable. You know, if you are a country and you're trying to gain the support of another country, then you want to do everything you can that they would act in a cooperative fashion. When you announce that you're going to launch an attack into another country, it's pretty obvious that you have the effect that it had in Pakistan: It turns public opinion against us. Now, let me just go back with you very briefly. We drove the Russians out with -- the Afghan freedom fighters drove the Russians out of Afghanistan, and then we made a most serious mistake. We washed our hands of Afghanistan. The Taliban came back in, Al Qaeda, we then had the situation that required us to conduct the Afghan war. Now, our relations with Pakistan are critical, because the border areas are being used as safe havens by the Taliban and Al Qaeda and other extremist organizations, and we have to get their support. Now, General Petraeus had a strategy, the same strategy -- very, very different, because of the conditions and the situation -- but the same fundamental strategy that succeeded in Iraq. And that is to get the support of the people. We need to help the Pakistani government go into Waziristan, where I visited, a very rough country, and -- and get the support of the people, and get them to work with us and turn against the cruel Taliban and others. And by working and coordinating our efforts together, not threatening to attack them, but working with them, and where necessary use force, but talk softly, but carry a big stick. OBAMA: Tom, just a... BROKAW: Senator McCain... OBAMA: ... just a quick follow-up on this. I think... MCCAIN: If we're going to have follow-ups, then I will want follow-ups, as well. BROKAW: No, I know. So but I think we get at it... MCCAIN: It'd be fine with me. It'd be fine with me. BROKAW: ... if I can, with this question. OBAMA: Then let's have one. BROKAW: All right, let's have a follow-up. MCCAIN: It'd be fine with me. OBAMA: Just -- just -- just a quick follow-up, because I think -- I think this is important. BROKAW: I'm just the hired help here, so, I mean... (LAUGHTER) OBAMA: You're doing a great job, Tom. Look, I -- I want to be very clear about what I said. Nobody called for the invasion of Pakistan. Senator McCain continues to repeat this. What I said was the same thing that the audience here today heard me say, which is, if Pakistan is unable or unwilling to hunt down bin Laden and take him out, then we should. Now, that I think has to be our policy, because they are threatening to kill more Americans. Now, Senator McCain suggests that somehow, you know, I'm green behind the ears and, you know, I'm just spouting off, and he's somber and responsible. MCCAIN: Thank you very much. OBAMA: Senator McCain, this is the guy who sang, "Bomb, bomb, bomb Iran," who called for the annihilation of North Korea. That I don't think is an example of "speaking softly." This is the person who, after we had -- we hadn't even finished Afghanistan, where he said, "Next up, Baghdad." So I agree that we have to speak responsibly and we have to act responsibly. And the reason Pakistan -- the popular opinion of America had diminished in Pakistan was because we were supporting a dictator, Musharraf, had given him $10 billion over seven years, and he had suspended civil liberties. We were not promoting democracy. This is the kind of policies that ultimately end up undermining our ability to fight the war on terrorism, and it will change when I'm president. MCCAIN: And, Tom, if -- if we're going to go back and forth, I then -- I'd like to have equal time to go -- to respond to... BROKAW: Yes, you get the... MCCAIN: ... to -- to -- to... BROKAW: ... last word here, and then we have to move on. MCCAIN: Not true. Not true. I have, obviously, supported those efforts that the United States had to go in militarily and I have opposed that I didn't think so. I understand what it's like to send young American's in harm's way. I say -- I was joking with a veteran -- I hate to even go into this. I was joking with an old veteran friend, who joked with me, about Iran. But the point is that I know how to handle these crises. And Senator Obama, by saying that he would attack Pakistan, look at the context of his words. I'll get Osama bin Laden, my friends. I'll get him. I know how to get him. I'll get him no matter what and I know how to do it. But I'm not going to telegraph my punches, which is what Senator Obama did. And I'm going to act responsibly, as I have acted responsibly throughout my military career and throughout my career in the United States Senate. And we have fundamental disagreements about the use of military power and how you do it, and you just saw it in response to previous questions."
He did make a campaign promise to do this (the hell and back soundbyte), which implicitly meant he'd take care of Dubya's muckup.
OBL masterminded 911 and hid in Pakistan Pakistan said it was a US ally but can't capture OBL in their own country Bush spoiled Pakistan and invaded Iraq Obama talked about invading Pakistan Obama never trusted Pakistan McCain blindly trusted Pakistan Whose policies would most likely get OBL?
Agreed...I don't believe there was any step change in what the goal was...It's a victory for America, and Obama is the president, but IMHO, taking credit and possibly grand standing is in poor taste...but this is politics in America...
He hasn't done a good job sticking to the timetable but he is withdrawing from Iraq whereas one of Bush's last acts was to surge in Iraq.
Perception is nine tenths of the lol. Of course there would be analysis beyond the duration of the event, and those that would paint the picture to portray their view. It may never end. Best to stick to the facts, and that's not always easy in this day and age, is it? Time will tell. Not sure exactly what yet, but time will tell.
No thanks necessary, my friend, you illustrated it perfectly with your rant; I merely put a narrative cherry on top of the self-fulfilling prophecy.
yeah so far it's told me - no link between 9/11 and iraq - no WMDs (where dem dern WMDs??) - blood for oil and halliburton - higher oil prices-but I thought we were going to get all kinds of oil from iraq, instead we enriched bush and co big oil buddies, saudi arabia.We got played and are getting played EVERYDAY at the gas pumps. - coddled pakistan under bush - bush flip flopped on getting bin laden ( I thought the flip flopper was guys like kerry) - war mongering , yellow cake uranium while *serving* in the guard (err uppity form of draft dodging).. then the nerve to call out kerry for being in combat. Ridiculous. - didn't get bin laden for 8 years while simultaneously taking more blood and giving more of it to oil and halliburton.sick. - obama steps to plate and finally takes action against bin laden. the job bush didnt and couldnt do - halliburton no bid and whoopsy the VP of the damn country was their CEO.yeah Im okay with that ! other notables- something like 15 of the hijackers were from saudi. saudi and bush family tied at hip... economy went to hell and handbasket and dollar was weakened. yeah time is telling me something allright.
Perhaps, but I was referring to this part: He's basically acknowledging everything the Bush administration did before him - at least that's how I interpreted it. Also, before that part, he says: This, to me, sounds gracious. He wasn't in office when any of this happened. By using "we" so much, it almost implies that he was on board with everything Bush was doing.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Death_of_Osama_bin_Laden [rquoter]According to ABC News, the first approach considered by U.S. officials was to bomb the house using B-2 Spirit stealth bombers, which could drop 32[50] 2,000-pound Joint Direct Attack Munitions (JDAMs). Obama rejected this option, however, opting for a raid that would provide definitive proof that bin Laden was inside, and limit civilian casualties.[/rquoter] Obama: "I'm sending the Wolf..." nsfw Spoiler <object width="480" height="385"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/g4UeHWPeOrA&hl=en_US&fs=1&autoplay=1&start=16"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/g4UeHWPeOrA&hl=en_US&fs=1&autoplay=1&start=16" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="480" height="385"></embed></object>
yeah what about the part where bush didnt imply anything, and said he wasnt going to get bin laden ?after he said he was going to get bin laden? was he *almost* flip flopping?
lurking since 97 ,and posting along the way too. I actually was not planning to ever post here again in this D&D, but the recent events reminded me of the talk around here, post 9/11... the war mongering, 9/11 - iraq around here on this bbs. It was really really bad. sickening actually. I couldnt resist posting this thread... in the end there was a right and a wrong and the 9/11 - iraq guys were simply wrong... Where are they now? Where is treeman or refman or whatever his name was? Where is jorge? Where is kagy? Where oh where ? I would love to say SCOREBOARD to those guys or gloat but the 4452 (and rising) in iraq http://antiwar.com/casualties/ doesn't make me too happy. The high gas prices, and ridiculous profits of big oil and halliburton only provide a backdrop for the reality that we were all taken advantage of. The sad part is most of the guys who fought tirelessly to spin kerry or spin 9/11 - iraq weren't and aren't the ones that made all the cash from oil and halliburton. They got played by their own ! It's a select few and the guys like cheney would pee on their own grandmother you think they are going to share with you? HO HO HO It's all coming out now and making more sense. I wish I could do some searching for that era from this bbs. Some of the posts and agendas were downright evil. That garbage was perpetrated all over the media , here,and USA ,coordinated GOP iraq blood money plan. They got their cash and can't even throw us a bone and get the price of oil down! WOW
