Casey, cortisone (if I remember correctly) is a steroid and is indeed used to treat injuries--but only as pain relief if I recall. Also (again IIRC) it's not an anabolic steroid. Additionally, I believe HGH is used to treat some injuries, to promote quicker healing, but I could be way off on this as well.
yeah you are off on both. Just because steroid is used to describe cortisone it is in no way related to the testosterone based Androgenic Anabolic Steroids. And HGH has no proven ability to help recover any injury. If it was a possibility the drug companies that make it would fund study after study to get it approved as such. HGH is also not the side effect machine ESPN claims, they give this crap to kids in injections every day for years and years.
When most people cite the shoulder injury I don't think they mean to argue that it exonerates him by proving an absence of banned PED usage. I think they are citing it as an alternative sufficient cause for the drop in muscle mass in 04/05 (or whenever it was) that some people have argued is the smoking gun. From what I understand, quiting steroids alone wouldn't be enough to cause Bagwell precipitous weight loss if he were still working out. Likewise, steroid usage would not stop the weight loss if he were sitting on the couch for a year not working out. His inability to lift weights seems to be the best explanation for the weight loss and his shoulder condition seems to be a better explanation than quitting PED for his inability to lift weights. It doesn't mean that Bagwell didn't use steroids, or that somehow steroid use didn't caused or hasten the shoulder injury, but it just shows that his precipitous weight loss is poor evidence to use in arguing that he did illegal PED.
according to wikipedia anabolic-androgenic steroids have been used by doctors for almost a century for medical purposes. Is this wrong? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anabolic_steroid Medical uses Various anabolic steroids and related compounds. Various anabolic steroids and related compounds. Since the discovery and synthesis of testosterone in the 1930s, anabolic steroids have been used by physicians for many purposes, with varying degrees of success. * Bone marrow stimulation: For decades, anabolic steroids were the mainstay of therapy for hypoplastic anemias due to leukemia or kidney failure, especially aplastic anemia.[52] Anabolic steroids have largely been replaced in this setting by synthetic protein hormones (such as epoetin alfa) that selectively stimulate growth of blood cell precursors. * Growth stimulation: Anabolic steroids can be used by pediatric endocrinologists to treat children with growth failure.[53] However, the availability of synthetic growth hormone, which has fewer side effects, makes this a secondary treatment. * Stimulation of appetite and preservation and increase of muscle mass: Anabolic steroids have been given to people with chronic wasting conditions such as cancer and AIDS.[54][55] * Induction of male puberty: Androgens are given to many boys distressed about extreme delay of puberty. Testosterone is now nearly the only androgen used for this purpose and has been shown to increase height, weight, and fat-free mass in boys with delayed puberty.[56] * Testosterone enanthate has frequently been used as a male contraceptive and it is thought that in the near future it could be used as a safe, reliable, and reversible male contraceptive.[57][58] * Anabolic steroids have been found in some studies to increase lean body mass and prevent bone loss in elderly men.[59][60][61] However, a 2006 placebo-controlled trial of low-dose testosterone supplementation in elderly men with low levels of testosterone found no benefit on body composition, physical performance, insulin sensitivity, or quality of life.[62] * Used in hormone replacement therapy for men with low levels of testosterone and is also effective in improving libido for elderly males.[63][64][65][66] * Used to treat gender dysmorphia (the belief that one was born the wrong gender) by producing secondary male characteristics, such as a deeper voice, increased bone and muscle mass, facial hair, increased levels of red blood cells and ****oral enlargement in female-to-male patients.[67]
OK I cherry picked all the POSSIBLE uses (some noted that they are no longer used for this condition because it didn't work or better things were found) not one of these is an injury. I guess SamFisher did his own study and has yet to release the results?
No, but the statement that you were responding to didn't explicitly say that it either so I wasn't sure what you were arguing. Anabolic steroids clearly have been used for decades for a variety of legitimate medical purposes. Also just because a licensed doctor won't use it doesn't mean that a desperate athlete won't use it thinking it may help with joint injuries. We are talking about an industry where players cork bats and take B-12 thinking it will help them perform. it's not a stretch to think (whether or not it's actually effective for this purpose) that some athletes have taken anabolic steroids, HGH, or any other banned PED for help in treating joint injuries. Heck just a 10 second google search of anabolic steroids and joint injuries, brings up bodybuilding and steroids discussion boards where people talk of using AAS for joint pain. So there at least some people out there using it for that.
and they are used to treat injuries. Unless you are arguing that cancer, symptoms from AIDS, and bone loss aren't "injuries' which is just arguing semantics.
AIDS is an Injury? You are seriously arguing that SAM was talking about AIDs and cancer when he said injury? this is hilarious that the person who just wall quoted wikipedia is now saying injury, disease are just semantics.
Of course symptoms from AIDS are injuries. You'd have to have an exceptionally narrow definition of "injury" to think otherwise. As i stated in the previous post, the post you were replying did not explicitly stated it was treated for joint pain, not did you in your original reply so I wasn't sure what you were arguing. But if you want to argue semantics, your original point that anabolic steroids are not used to treat joint injuries is clearly wrong as a 10 second google search will show. There are steroid users/body builders who use AAS to treat joint injuries, even if a doctor can't or won't prescribe it for that purpose.
Ok 2 points. 1.Injury and disease are completely different. Inujury is from a physical or chemical (acid) nature not genetic mutation or bacteria etc. The post was saying injury's in reference to his shoulder which is why I said joint pain, if it was not in reference to shoulder then what was it in reference too? Semantics would be possibly injuries and trama or disease and cancer. Injury and disease do not in any way overlap. 2. These google searches you have found have people with drug problems talking about using illegal drugs. They have a dependance. I know people who use cigs for lung cancer and beer for liver disease. That does not mean it is a
lets explore this more OK well what is an injury Why are you arguing this weakness? Roids are not used to treat injuries end of story.
Anabolic steroids appear to promote healing in rats. http://ajs.sagepub.com/cgi/content/abstract/27/1/2 The Effect of Anabolic Steroids and Corticosteroids on Healing of Muscle Contusion Injury The effect of an anabolic steroid (nandrolone decanoate, 20 mg/kg) and a corticosteroid (methylprednisolone acetate, 25 mg/kg) on healing muscle injured with a drop-mass technique in a reproducible muscle contusion injury model in the rat was studied. Healing was determined by measuring active contractile tension in each muscle and histologic analysis. At day 2, the corticosteroid group showed significant improvement in both twitch and tetanic strength relative to the controls. At day 7, this effect was reversed and the corticosteroid muscles were significantly weaker than the control muscles, but there was still no significant effect seen in the anabolic steroid group. At day 14, the corticosteroid muscles were totally degenerated, with disorganized muscle fiber architecture. The anabolic steroid muscles were significantly stronger in twitch, and a similar trend was seen in tetanus relative to control muscles. The results indicate that in an animal model corticosteroids may be beneficial in the short term, but they cause irreversible damage to healing muscle in the long term, including disordered fiber structure and a marked diminution in force-generating capacity. Anabolic steroids may aid in the healing of muscle contusion injury to speed the recovery of force-generating capacity. Although anabolic steroids are considered renegade drugs, they may have an ethical clinical application to aid healing in severe muscle contusion injury, and their use in the treatment of muscle injuries warrants further research.
I thought that was the point of anabolic steroids? Working out breaks the muscles down, and they build themselves back up stronger--and anabolic steroids speed the building-back-up process along? Am I "misremembering"? (Somehow seems like an appropriate word for this conversation.)
Sorry for taking this off-topic in this direction. I don't think there is any compelling evidence for Bagwell juicing so i'm not sure why i'm arguing this point. I'll just make this last post and leave it at this. No it is semantic and I don't see the distinction you are trying to make. When disease manifest themselves through harmful symptoms that hurt the body, those symptoms are injuries. Even the definitions you cited back up that disease and particularly negative symptoms from disease are injuries. Look at merrian-webster "injury": "an act that damages or hurts...2:: hurt, damage, or loss sustained" Are you telling me that the negative symptoms from AIDS that shorten ones life and cause physical pain do not fit in this definition? You're seriously trying to make that argument? You know people who try to try to cure and/or treat liver disease by drinking alcohol and who try to cure lung cancer by smoking cigarettes? or do you know people who drink alcohol and smoke cigarette despite having liver and lung cancer? That's in important distinction. I imagine the people you know don't actually think drinking more alcohol will help their liver disease or that smoking will cure their lung cancer. They continue probably because they are addiction and/or their enjoyment of their vices outweigh the damage it is doing to their bodies. Not because they literally believe that alcohol and cigarettes will medically cure their "injuries" The distinction between those alcoholic/smokers and the people i cited is that there is at least some portion of the steroid using base that actually believe that AAS medically helps their joint injuries. There are some in the underground steroid community that use it to treat joint injuries because they believe it helps them recover from these injuries. Baseball players are probably considered part of this community. Therefore it is not unreasonable to think that a steroid using player might believe that it could help joint injuries. Whether this is medically sound or whether doctors believe in this isn't even really the issue. it's analogous to if someone said "B-12 is used for performance enhancement" and then you argue "it is not used for performance enhancement because doctors won't prescribe it for said purpose because there is no medical evidence that it helps sports performance in any way." And then they counter "my original statement is still true because despite what medical science says and despite what doctors may do, some athletes still take B-12 because they believe it helps sport performance. Therefore B-12 is used for performance enhancement" Same exact argument
Nice. See contusion? Thats an INJURY. Thank God. Anyways thats a muscle bruise which is far from tendon. ligament, or cart damage. But atleast you understand what an injury is.
yeah because falling down is an act thus an injury. It is clear and distinct. you are stretching this and its boring. I am glad you will no longer push this dumb argument My point is those steroid users have a problem and abuse drugs. Addicts many times bargain and justify their drug use.
