1. Welcome! Please take a few seconds to create your free account to post threads, make some friends, remove a few ads while surfing and much more. ClutchFans has been bringing fans together to talk Houston Sports since 1996. Join us!

  2. Watching NBA Action
    It's Orlando-Cleveland Game 5. Come join Clutch as we're watching NBA playoff action live!

    LIVE: NBA Playoffs!
    Dismiss Notice

Astros: Why so much love for Jmike?

Discussion in 'Houston Astros' started by jim1961, Aug 29, 2011.

  1. jim1961

    jim1961 Member

    Joined:
    Jan 26, 2010
    Messages:
    17,474
    Likes Received:
    13,363
    http://astros290.com/2011/08/29/mills-is-sticking-with-michaels/

    He’s never been great defensively, and he’s batting .201 overall this season and just .218 against lefties, but Mills insists on playing him against left handed pitchers instead of J.B. Shuck, Jordan Schafer or Brian Bogusevic.

    “Let’s give him a little bit more time…let things play out a little bit more, and we’ll see where he’s at.”


    I thought the above article summed it up pretty well. It sounds like to me Mills is making excuses to play Jmike basically because he likes him. I say this because there is not one shred of statistical data or one solid argument that can be made to backup his position.

    More time for what???????

    Am I or the author missing something? :confused: :confused: :confused:
     
  2. msn

    msn Member

    Joined:
    Dec 31, 2002
    Messages:
    11,726
    Likes Received:
    2,093
    There is no excuse to play ANYONE except rookies wherever possible. Even Carlos Lee should sit (actually, put his fat ass on waivers; let's see how desperate SF is for offense...).
     
  3. bobrek

    bobrek Politics belong in the D & D

    Joined:
    Sep 16, 1999
    Messages:
    36,288
    Likes Received:
    26,639
    This year he has been miserable. Perhaps they have been trying to get him going and showcase him this month to try and get something in a trade.

    That being said - why all the love for Jason Bourgeois? Over their last 75 or so at bats, Michaels is hitting better (or, more appropriately, Bourgeois is hitting worse)
     
  4. bobrek

    bobrek Politics belong in the D & D

    Joined:
    Sep 16, 1999
    Messages:
    36,288
    Likes Received:
    26,639
    Lee was placed on waivers. Wisely, no team claimed him since they would be on the hook for his entire 2012 salary.
     
  5. msn

    msn Member

    Joined:
    Dec 31, 2002
    Messages:
    11,726
    Likes Received:
    2,093
    Loved what Bourgeois was doing before the injury. As likely as it is that he's not a long-time starter in the NL, it's much more interesting to see what we've got with guys like Bourgeois, Shafer, etc. than to watch has-beens and never-weres hit .215 all year.
     
  6. msn

    msn Member

    Joined:
    Dec 31, 2002
    Messages:
    11,726
    Likes Received:
    2,093
    Ha I missed that Lee cleared waivers, but I figured he would. Let's give SF a call. :grin:
     
  7. bobrek

    bobrek Politics belong in the D & D

    Joined:
    Sep 16, 1999
    Messages:
    36,288
    Likes Received:
    26,639
    Since they'll have to eat his salary anyway, might as well give him away and get Wallace back up to play everyday to help ascertain if he is the long term solution at first base or a stop gap until Singleton is ready or a career AAAA player a la Jason Lane.
     
  8. jim1961

    jim1961 Member

    Joined:
    Jan 26, 2010
    Messages:
    17,474
    Likes Received:
    13,363
    Bourgeois slump has really only been since August 5th

    http://espn.go.com/mlb/player/gamelog/_/id/29262/jason-bourgeois

    While Jmike has been in one all year with the exception of June.

    http://espn.go.com/mlb/player/gamelog/_/id/4653/jason-michaels
     
  9. juicystream

    juicystream Contributing Member

    Joined:
    Apr 17, 2001
    Messages:
    29,291
    Likes Received:
    5,404
    More time for his numbers to progress towards his career numbers. He isn't sitting Martinez or Schafer, who the team apparently expects futures out of. They are sitting a corner outfielder that makes Michael Bourn look like a slugger.
     
  10. bobrek

    bobrek Politics belong in the D & D

    Joined:
    Sep 16, 1999
    Messages:
    36,288
    Likes Received:
    26,639
    That is why I referenced the last 75 at bats or so. Jason Bourgeois is what he is - a fast guy with reasonable defensive skills that has shown to possess low on base percentage over the past two seasons. He is also 29 years old and more than likely will never be anything more than a bench player.
     
  11. rockets934life

    rockets934life Contributing Member

    Joined:
    Nov 11, 2007
    Messages:
    15,312
    Likes Received:
    249
    Millsy loves his vets. I'm okay with giving JMike, Sanchez and Jason B. a start every so often to keep them fresh but this lefty/righty thing drives me nuts. Let Schafer, Bogey and Shuck play against the lefties and sink or swim. I sense Schafer will but the other two not so sure. JMike's numbers against lefties aren't very good and "getting him going" should not be an objective.
     
  12. msn

    msn Member

    Joined:
    Dec 31, 2002
    Messages:
    11,726
    Likes Received:
    2,093
    Didn't realize Jason B was 29. My bad.
     
  13. Buck Turgidson

    Joined:
    Feb 14, 2002
    Messages:
    85,960
    Likes Received:
    84,367
    The quote from Mills is referring to Bogusevic seeing more AB's versus LHP.
     
  14. jim1961

    jim1961 Member

    Joined:
    Jan 26, 2010
    Messages:
    17,474
    Likes Received:
    13,363
    In the article, Mills is quoted saying, “J-Mike’s with us and in the past he’s been a real good hitter against left-handers, so we’d like to give him a chance.” He continued, “Let’s give him a little bit more time…let things play out a little bit more, and we’ll see where he’s at.”

    No. He is clearly talking about Jmike.
     
  15. bobrek

    bobrek Politics belong in the D & D

    Joined:
    Sep 16, 1999
    Messages:
    36,288
    Likes Received:
    26,639
    Nope, he is talking about Bogusevic. Here is the part you omitted:

    Mills says he understands the frustration of the fans, who would like to see Bogusevic get regular starts against left-handers.

    "I totally understand that, but at the same time let's give him a little bit more time," he said. "Let things play out a little bit more, and we'll see where he's at."
     
  16. jim1961

    jim1961 Member

    Joined:
    Jan 26, 2010
    Messages:
    17,474
    Likes Received:
    13,363
    Exactly. What is needed now is to develop and evaluate the young guys. That hard to do if they are sitting on the bench. Why would getting Jmike going be of any benefit what so ever to the club? Are we in a race I dont know about?

    I agree, let the vets play enough to not go stale. Keep them fresh. But beyond that is just simply counter productive to rebuilding the team.
     
  17. jim1961

    jim1961 Member

    Joined:
    Jan 26, 2010
    Messages:
    17,474
    Likes Received:
    13,363
    Here is the ENTIRE Article. I dont know what your reading, but what you are quoting isnt there.

    « This week in Mills Misfires
    Series Preview: A Pirate’s Life for Them, Not Me »
    Mills sticking with Michaels

    Aug 29th, 2011 by Austin Swafford

    What do I do when righties start? Help the grounds crew round up stray kittens, of course. (photo from Baltimore Sun)

    Yesterday, Brian McTaggart wrote on the Astros official website that Brad Mills believes in Jason Michaels versus lefties. Mills had to specify this, of course, because of Michaels’s lack of success in any realm this year. He’s never been great defensively, and he’s batting .201 overall this season and just .218 against lefties, but Mills insists on playing him against left handed pitchers instead of J.B. Shuck, Jordan Schafer or Brian Bogusevic.

    In the article, Mills is quoted saying, “J-Mike’s with us and in the past he’s been a real good hitter against left-handers, so we’d like to give him a chance.” He continued, “Let’s give him a little bit more time…let things play out a little bit more, and we’ll see where he’s at.”

    I don’t mean to rag on Michaels and I’m certainly not picking on him. I’m sure he’s a very nice guy and everyone on the team certainly seems to be behind him. But this dedication on Mills’s part has become very confusing and frustrating for Astros fans. The team is getting younger, and at 35, Michaels kind of stands out. Many fans would like to see younger left handed outfielders (Bogusevic, 27; Schafer, 24; Shuck, 24) get the chance to try their hand against left handed pitchers.

    And it’s hard to blame them. During a lost season like the 44-90 mess the Astros find themselves mired in, it only makes sense to allow young players the chance to develop skills they will need later if they truly are the rebuilding pieces the Astros hope they are. What do they have to play for this season? What benefit do they possibly get from any platoon advantage they might have even if Michaels were hitting lefties? He’s never been much more than a platoon player for the Astros, and now that he’s not even hitting lefties well like he has in the past, this tactic has become even more frustrating and confusing.

    Mills says he wants to give Michaels more time, to give him more of a chance. For what? He’s got 144 at-bats in 81 games this year. Are we going to find out something about him in September that we didn’t already know in April, May, June, July and August? Is Michaels going to do something that he hasn’t done as he’s batted .231 over three seasons with the Astros?

    Since 2008, he’s batting .217 against lefties. The best on-base percentage he’s posted in three years with the Astros is a very low .322. Yes, Michaels has put up better batting averages in years past than he is this year, but nothing that would really drive you to keep him around, especially when you account for the very low on-base percentage and his advanced age. Do we really think he’s going to do something terribly different at the age of 35 than what he’s done in the previous 288 games played with the Astros?

    Count me among the non-believers.

    The only thing that makes sense at this point is to allow the young lefties a chance to play against lefty pitchers. They’ll need the experience later anyway, so they might as well get it in a lost season. Despite what Mills thinks, there’s nothing to wait for with Michaels. All he’s doing is denying valuable experience to young players.

    For more agnostic Astros rants, follow me on Twitter @Astros290

    Posted in Gripes and Groans
     
  18. bobrek

    bobrek Politics belong in the D & D

    Joined:
    Sep 16, 1999
    Messages:
    36,288
    Likes Received:
    26,639
    That article (fan blog?) is missing the segue between discussing Michaels and discussing Bogusevic. Here is the article that your article is quoting:

    "Astros manager Brad Mills continues to use a platoon in right field, with Jason Michaels or Jason Bourgeois starting against left-handed pitchers and Brian Bogusevic starting against right-handers, like he did Sunday when Matt Cain was on the mound for the Giants.

    Bogusevic has only five at-bats against lefties this year, going 1-for-5, and Mills admitted he'd like to get him more at-bats against southpaws in the future. But for now, the skipper is content to let Michaels and Bourgeois get most of the time against lefties.

    Michaels is hitting .196 this season, including .208 against lefties, while Bourgeois is hitting .359 against left-handers.

    "J-Mike's with us and in the past he's been a real good hitter against left-handers, so we'd like to give him a chance," Mills said.

    Mills says he understands the frustration of the fans, who would like to see Bogusevic get regular starts against left-handers.

    "I totally understand that, but at the same time let's give him a little bit more time," he said. "Let things play out a little bit more, and we'll see where he's at."

    http://houston.astros.mlb.com/news/...tebook_id=23870874&vkey=notebook_hou&c_id=hou

    Pretty disingenuous quoting by the author of the article you posted.
     
  19. jim1961

    jim1961 Member

    Joined:
    Jan 26, 2010
    Messages:
    17,474
    Likes Received:
    13,363
    I see what you are saying now. But unless ive lost all my marbles, he is still talking about playing Jmike over another young player (Bogusevic) against lefties. And I still cant understand why.
     
  20. bobrek

    bobrek Politics belong in the D & D

    Joined:
    Sep 16, 1999
    Messages:
    36,288
    Likes Received:
    26,639
    It will be more telling if he continues to do so in September. If Michaels had gotten hot over his last few starts, it may have created a market for him during these last few days of August. I agree that they should see what the younger guys can do in all situations, but since the season is lost and there was a chance of trading Michaels, I can totally see the Astros point (poviding that is their point).

    Remember that the Astros got Carpenter for Pedro Feliz last year. If they could get another player similar to Carpenter for Michaels, taking away those August at bats from Bogusevic or others would have been worth it.
     

Share This Page

  • About ClutchFans

    Since 1996, ClutchFans has been loud and proud covering the Houston Rockets, helping set an industry standard for team fan sites. The forums have been a home for Houston sports fans as well as basketball fanatics around the globe.

  • Support ClutchFans!

    If you find that ClutchFans is a valuable resource for you, please consider becoming a Supporting Member. Supporting Members can upload photos and attachments directly to their posts, customize their user title and more. Gold Supporters see zero ads!


    Upgrade Now