[Astros] Spring Training Thread

Darn that cheap SOB McLane and his $93,000,000 payroll.

 

And if (when) Racket signs, it'll push the payroll up over $100M. It's over $90M now.

Cheapass Drayton.

 

Yeah, and anyway, I don't care about Drayton's bank account.

My only concern, as a fan, is "Does Bagwell help or hurt this team?" I don't think he'll ever be able to throw well enough and don't think he has any power left. Who do you drop to make room for him on the 25 man roster?

 

I'm not claiming that Drayton is cheap. He's the best owner that Astros have ever known. Also, the free-agent market this season sucked and the only move that was interesting (Tejada) we pursued and it fell through.

But the point that a $90 million payroll makes him footloose and fancy free is somewhat ignorant. He has had the highest revenues for the franchise over the past two seasons and the overall payrolls of teams are growing exponentially. 5 years ago, a $100 million dollar payroll lead the league. Nowadays, the Yanks, Mets and Red Sox are topping $200. The only reason that those payrolls are relevant is that the Astros have proven themselves to be a great team, and to an extent, they must keep escalating their payroll to maintain that stake.

They don't necessarily have to be at $150, but the days of $63 are long gone.

 

Of course you do. You care about it enough to spend it like it was your own.

 

Not at all. I've never once criticised Drayton for not spending more. There have even been a few times, like the Beltran thing, where I've applauded his restraint. Do I wish he would spend more? Yes. Do I think he could afford it? Sure. But I'm not complaining.

All that being said, I don't care how much money (if any) Drayton can save on Bagwell's contract. I understand why he'd like to save that money (who wouldn't?), but (A) that's a deal he decided to make, so I don't care if he ends up on the hook for it, and (B) even if he does save that cash, I doubt that it goes right back into the team, so it doesn't really affect me as a fan.

 

Sorry to double quote you, but since your are on the protect Drayton bandwagon...

My main concern isn't your or my perception of how freely he spends money, but the players themselves. If after this season, (when Bag's gets his 7 mill buyout and Pettite's backloaded contract is gone) the Astro's don't land any good free agent's because of a negative perception of the franchise or an unwillingness to pay market value, I will be furious.

Also, whether it's true or not, I think it was common opinion that Andy's backloaded contract was never going to be paid by Drayton, but by Fertita. I would bet my money that it was the extended revenue's that have kept him (McLane) in the game.

This wonderful $90 million dollar payroll you speak of, was created out of necessity and even a spendthrift would have ponied up the cash for a discounted Pettite, money making Roger, and discounted Berkman.

Next year begins the test of how loose he really is with his payroll.

 

Since when is $10MM a year for a pitcher and $15MM for an outfielder (he had a torn ACL when he signed that deal, by the way) considered discounts? Or $20MM for Roger Clemens. I don't know if you know anything about baseball economics, but Roger did not generate $20MM in revenues, or anywhere close to that.

 

The situation you lay out is exactly what's been happening, budget & payroll-wise. Since the move to the BUS payroll has been right about where it should be, judged against revenue & market size relative to the other teams.

They've put themselves in excellent postition for next offseason, which was pretty much their plan over the past couple of years.

The biggest move needed in the near future is Roy's contract extension. There's been some interesting & somewhat troubling comments made recently.

 

OK, my bad.

 

All I know is, we've got one last good shot at the WS. If there was ever a time to extend for an all-out push, it would be now.

Evan

 

Such as?

 

are you serious? The Yankass' were offering Pettite more money that we were and he took a hometown discount. Now, part of that discount came as a very cheap first year and a backloaded third. Also, to look at 20 million for Roger and say that is all, you are ignoring his first years salary. Therefore, if you took the two years salaries added them (am I losing you here?) and then considered sellouts for Roger's games when the team was still in the tank, plus Jersey sales and all other Revenues that could in some fashion be attributed to Roger, Drayton would have a positive net gain from the signing.

And you don't think that on the open market, that Houston's own Mr. October (who has done it in more than one postseason, unlike Beltran), could get more than he did with Houston?

 

"Common opinon" of whom?

"Protect Drayton bandwagon"? Awesome. Because he really, really needs my help.

"Negative perception of the franchise" - go read some of Ensberg's & Wilson's comments after they signed their deals. That'll tell you much more about how the 'Stros are viewed within baseball than will some comments by certain Houston journalists.

As far as next offseason goes, go read some of Purp's comments over the past couple of years. It's pretty obvious that next offseason is what they've been working toward the past 2 winters. The pre-emptive b****ing is just a bit premature, no?

Major covered the "discounted contracts" angle.

 

You must have believed that Onion.com article that said "Yankees sign everyone."

Not every team can spend like them... likewise, not every player wants to play for a team that spends like that.

 

I'm not trying to bash Drayton, just saying that a counter opinion is somewhat justified.

I know that they have been targeting next years free-agents and I think that our success within that will tell much of the story.

Also, Morgan was a player from withing the organization, and its not like there were alot of teams after Wilson's services.

 

Backloading a contract doesn't make it a discount. It gives the club flexibility, but it doesn't affect what Pettite gets, unless he needed that extra $5MM a year earlier. Pettite left NY because he didn't feel they treated him well - that was it. The only thing Pettite likely could have gotten elsewhere was more years - but its doubtful he would have gotten any more more money per year with other clubs.

As for Roger, you don't understand baseball economics and revenue sharing if you think Drayton benefits significantly from all that stuff. At best, Roger paid for himself his first year - $5MM is a reasonable estimate of what he brings in, at best. $20MM? Not even close.

Given that Beltran plays a much tougher defensive position, improved in each of his first 6 season seasons, Berkman is mediocre defensively in left field, Berkman is still under club control (they didn't have to give him any type of long-term deal at this point), and that Berkman was coming off an ACL tear, there's no way in hell Berkman gets more than $15MM a year anywhere when Beltran got $17MM. Manny Ramirez, considered maybe the best hitter in all of baseball, is considered way overpaid and thus untradable at $20MM, and he was 100% healthy.

 

When Roy signed his last deal in Feb '05, he didn't want a long-term (4 year) deal that would eat into his FA years (after '07). His current contract runs out after this season & then he's arbitration eligible for one last year.

Recently it was reported by Gammons & locally here in Houston that he wants an extension done by the end of March or he'll play out his '07 option & then test the FA market.

The ultimatum seems strange, but we definitely don't have the whole story here. I would imagine that something gets worked out, this offseason or preferably he backs off his "now or never" approach & they get a long-term deal done next offseason. Kinda scary though.

Some background info here:
http://houston.astros.mlb.com/NASAp...nt_id=941859&vkey=news_hou&fext=.jsp&c_id=hou

 

That doesn't make their comments about how the Astros are viewed around MLB any less relevant.

 

Which he didn't want. He said when he signed that he was playing out this contract & then hanging it up, which he's reiterated several times since then.