Perception is reality in a lot of situations I wouldn't go as far as you in saying no one worth his salt would take the job But I do think the perception our club has acquired over the past couple of year will make it tougher to get good people to want to come here, whether it be players or managers. Hard to say HOW much of an effect it will have, but we are probably the most negatively talked about professional sports organization in the nation right now
Brian McTaggart: Bo Porter's statement Bo Porter’s statement on being let go by Astros Astros manager Bo Porter sent this statement via text members to some members of the media: “I want to thank the Astros Organization for giving me my first opportunity to Manage Major League Baseball. During my time in Houston I dedicated myself to do everything I could to help this Organization win, in the short-term and for the long-term. I am proud of what we were able to accomplish in Houston with an Organization in transition. I’m gratified we were able to bring some excitement to this city as a result of our improvement from 2013 to 2014. I am enthusiastic about what the future will bring for me and my family. I look forward to my next opportunity in Major League Baseball. The valuable experience I gained with the Astros will be extremely beneficial in all my future endeavors. I want to especially thank my players, my staff and support staff for all their efforts in our attempt to develop a Championship culture doing my time as Manager of the Houston Astros. I want to thank the baseball community for your kind words and the countless text messages, phone calls, voicemails and emails. Your support is what makes our game and industry so great! Last but surely not least I want to thank the city of Houston and the fans for the incredible support they have shown towards me and my family during our time in Houston. I wish the Astros well in the future and look forward to the next chapter of my baseball career.”
Astros proceed with unified voice [rQUOTEr]HOUSTON -- Two springs ago, Astros general manager Jeff Luhnow gathered his players to introduce his new manager, Bo Porter. That very day, some players foresaw trouble. "It was extremely uncomfortable being in that room," one remembered. Players and coaches remember a weird dynamic between the two men. "Bo kept interrupting Jeff," one player said. "He seemed to think he was the boss. If you'd been there, you would have known it wasn't going to work." It really never did. That Porter held the job for 300 games -- he was dismissed on Monday -- reflects the fact that Luhnow simply had other priorities. Luhnow was rebuilding the Astros from top to bottom and treating the big league roster as sort of a tryout camp as he searched for players who might be able to stick around once the organization turned a corner. Still, there seemed to be little question that a reckoning day was coming. Once Luhnow believed the Astros were on the verge of respectability, there was almost certainly going to be a new manager. That decision figured to come after this season as the Astros move forward with an influx of young talent. But Porter may have forced the decision himself in recent days with what Luhnow probably viewed as insubordination. So on Monday, Luhnow made a change. He named Tom Lawless, a Minor League hitting instructor and fill-in Minor League manager, to be the interim manager. In a sharply worded statement, Luhnow made it clear that he was looking for a new direction and a new voice. "I made this decision because I believe we need a new direction in our clubhouse," Luhnow said. "What we will seek going forward is a consistent and united message throughout the entire organization." Luhnow said the team's won-loss record -- 110-190 under Porter -- was his responsibility, which is damning to Porter on several levels. In other words, he didn't dismiss Porter for losing too many baseball games. He dismissed him because he no longer respected Porter's leadership skills and his ability to be a team player in the organization. From the beginning, there was a disconnect. In that first Spring Training, Porter did things that struck the front office as silly. For instance, Porter had the walls papered with motivational sayings and placed mirrors in each locker to remind players to look at themselves first before blaming a teammate. He had players turn their chairs away from their lockers, his way of telling them to look forward. If he'd been managing a Little League team, that stuff might have played well. Adults? Not so much. When one coach left the big league staff, he went directly to Luhnow and said, "You had better get that guy away from your young players." Similar things have been said by other former players and coaches, but it was impossible to know which of the comments were valid and which were from people bitter at how things worked out. Luhnow clearly believed some of the things he was hearing, and although he never criticized Porter, he was clearly displeased with the team's preparation and execution, and especially by how Porter was perceived in the clubhouse. Luhnow may have second-guessed Porter's in-game decisions, but that kind of thing probably happens with half the teams in baseball. Tension between the manager and GM has been going on for years in baseball. Some of it is healthy because it can lead to an open discussion of every decision. What Luhnow -- and Astros owner Jim Crane -- had to decide was whether Porter was the right guy to lead the Astros going forward. They decided he was not. [MORE][/rQUOTEr]
That was a class act. I abstained because the wrong person(s) got axed. I mean Porter wasn't the one having problems communicating with the organization or signing draft picks. But then Crane & Luhnow aren't gonna fire themselves.
This is as far as I made it in the thread. We've seen several instances this year of players (young players) mouthing off in the media. We've heard players grumbling about things that do not concern them in the least - *to the media*. That is not healthy. Leadership starts at the top in any clubhouse, and it's not all Porter's fault. Where is the veteran leadership? Absent that, WTF is the manager doing, if not managing people? Terry Collins and his scream and yell and throwing things bs didn't work with a young team, and I don't think Porter's style, although different, fits with what they need on this current squad. Someone who commands respect, can teach young players to be professional and doesn't need the rah-rah crap is my outsider's ideal. Someone who can actually "manage" lineups and in-game situations would also be nice. I said it then and I'll say it again, damn I wish they hired Ausmus.
I can see the benefit of both styles I think the numbers based coaching/ managing always leave you with an excuse/reason/out I know baseball is ALOT more analytical than basketball or football but gotta be some room for some GUT INSTINCT I don't know who is being screwed in this deal Bo got a shot and not he out . . . maybe he get another shot just trying to get a sense of the thing Coaching from the booth is the future? Rocket River
I always liked Porter but the football coach stuff probably doesn't fly in baseball, and disagreeing with a powerful GM is a bad move.
What are you the messenger of? Your tag doesn't go with your constant putting down of Houston teams. If you dislike them so much, maybe you should go elsewhere.
I can't blame Porter for complaining to Crane about Lunhow. Porter knew regardless of who was calling the shots, he was always going to be the scapegoat. And it all probably came to light when Lunhow second-guessed Porters management of in-game decisions; Porter went on the offensive and noted that he was being handcuffed by Lunhow's instance to manage the roster. Once the media got wind of the conflict, Crane had to move fast. There will be no dissent! I think something similar happened with Cosart, because rumor was that he was upset that Appel got to pitch the bullpen session. Either way, the hand writing was on the wall. Lunhow lost confidence in Porter. And Porter pointing the finger at Lunhow, who happens to be Crane's choice sealed the outcome. Crane knew the road he took when he went with Lunhow. Crane is no spring chicken, he know a little bit about management. The blueprint is on schedule. Though it can be derailed by a few misses. But whomever takes over will have a much better quality team.
You don't need a manager out there to "play the percentages". You can have a computer telling them exactly what to do, percentage wise, for every single situation. You can have a computer fill out the lineup card (presuming all players are "healthy"), and tell them who should play which position. They probably need a manager for everything else... handling chemistry issues in-house, helping young players adjust to the majors, cultivating an professional environment, helping the team gain and maintain a competitive edge. However, if they want to completely eliminate all in-game thinking and gut feelings from the manager spot, they need to be very much up front with the candidates at the start... something I don't think they made clear to Bo (which is why I questioned the hire to start with... somebody with neither big league managerial experience along with somebody who seemed to play hunches and favor his player's preferences/ on making decisions).
And when an employee goes over his boss's head to complain to the owner of the company, I can't blame the boss for firing him, especially when the owner agrees. It was obviously an unworkable "office" dynamic. I hope Crane/Luhnow/front office/Porter all learned something, since they were all new at this. Best of luck to Porter, he'll manage again.
No reason to hire a baseball guy to manage this team; he's going to clash with this "all in" formulaic approach to everything. Employ the first engineer you can find who smiles and gets along well with others. That's all you need. The shifts and everything else are pre-determined by formula anyway. Hell, let Luhnow manage from the owner's box. Or a robot!! Yes, a robot!!! that would be awesome. I wanna see C3PO in effing blue and orange.
I agree Max. I hope it all works out and we really are so much smarter than everyone else that we go on a long run of success Gotta say I'm a bit worried though
this is exactly what had to happen, and shows how committed the front office is to luhnow's philosophy
