By the time any of those players are any good, Pence will be long gone or being paid an obscene amount. People need to understand: players can always be acquired at a fair market value price. They are only truly "valuable" when they aren't being paid market value. You can always go out and find another Pence for the $12MM or whatever you'd end up paying him in a couple of years. Pence is close to running out of value for the Astros; if they aren't going to contend while he's still underpaid, he serves no value to the team except as trade bait. When the team contends again, they can use the money they would have spent on Pence to find another guy of the same caliber.
I mentioned JD Drew earlier, that would be the type of package the Stros could expect back for Hunter. Truth be told, Hunter has had a much better career to this point then what Drew had up to the point he was dealt to the ATL. Our Wainwright could be someone like Cosart from Philly or Mike Minor from the ATL plus another high ceiling prospect.
I would say that a players value rests upon his play on the field, but that's just me. But really you and I are now not talking about the same thing, are we. You are defining value in sterile terms, but winning isn't so paint by numbers. Unless you don't recognize the difference between say: Manny Ramirez and Alex Rodriguez, to a ball club. You can have a starting lineup of all guys being paid pennies what they are worth, they still ain't going to be craig biggio. But sure, "true value" can be paying a player less than he's worth, but I doubt that in that model there are any craig biggios in that model. The model you seem to be proposing instead is for the astros to be a farm team. The other thing: The statement that free agency is fiscally smart option to paying hunter pence seems rather dubious, it seems as if you are relying on the fact that said equal player to pence will be out there and nobody but the astros will offer anything for him.
I remember when Justin Upton was so hyped that he was the next generational star. Pence has outplayed him in every way with far less fan fair. Every prospect is just that, a prospect. When is the last time a rookie really electrified baseball? Strasburg. Who else?
I would trade Wandy to the Yanks for one of their top two pitching prospects either Dellin Betances or Manny Banuelos. They also appear to have a surplus of catcher prospects so we could probably get one of them on the cheep. Insurance in case Castro doesn't work out. P - Dellin Betances or Manny Banuelos C - Austin Romine another low A ball prospect. http://newyork.yankees.mlb.com/mlb/prospects/watch/y2011/#list=nyy
Upton is 23 years old, signed long term to a VERY reasonable deal. They've had very similar careers, not sure how Hunter has outplayed him? Upton has a better OBP, Hunter slightly better slugging and Hunter has 700 PAs on Justin so he is about equal on most terms. If Hunter was 23 and signed to Upton's deal, I would be completely against moving him. It doesn't matter if whoever we get makes an impact today or tomorrow but rather over a nice 10 year career.
If Ramirez, A-Rod, or Biggio are paid $50MM / yr, they are not valuable to a team. If they are paid $500k, they are extremely valuable. Value to a team is directly connected to their pay, no matter who the player is or how good they might be. Ultimately, building a team is about working within a budget, so payroll is always the limiting factor. The goal for the Astros is not simply "be as good as possible". Its "be as good as possible within $x budget". No - the point is that to keep Hunter Pence, you are going to have to pay him market value. You could just as easily pay another player market value whenever the time comes that you actually need that player to be any good. By trading Pence in the meantime, you also get prospects. Almost every player out there takes the highest contract offered, and you'd be silly to work on the assumption that (a) Pence will take some kind of discount to stay here or (b) another similar player wouldn't come here if we offered more than anyone else.
You are making the assumptions, not I. Your point about paying players lower than market value, once again, is duly noted. Now can you please explain how that model isn't just a glorified farm team? I mean it is all well and good that you want to pay biggio 500k, good luck with that. The other thing that you seem to gloss over is a fact that I was trying to get you to see with my manny and alex comparison. That is, that, though you can compare players worth by stats and say this guy and somebody else are comparable, it does mean that they can provide the same amount of wins when you actually insert them onto your team. There are other factors that are involved, and that little something extra that a biggio provides isn't something that can be found with players that have biggio-like stats.
This year: Upton at 23: 302/382/524 (11 sb) Pence at 28: 321/361/497 (4 sb) In about 160 less games in their career so far, Upton has a higher war. So exactly how has pence out played upton?
I said it somewhere else...I sure hope, for Wandy's sake, he isn't traded there. He relies so much on his curveball that he could end up much like Darryl Kile did in CO...terrible.
http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2011/...tml?utm_source=twitterfeed&utm_medium=twitter To be honest, his numbers aren't bad at all. His problem was he set such a high standard that modest numbers make him look bad. Wandy for Montero and another top 10 prospect would be a huge trade for the Stros.
I will LOL at the Yankees if they trade Montero AND another prospect for Wandy when they wouldn't trade Montero for Santana or Cliff Lee.
Yankees had a deal to send Montero to the Mariners for Lee last year. The Mariners chose the Rangers package with Smoak instead.
I think a couple things happened with Montero, like I mentioned, he is having a decent season but not close to the seasons he was having. Also, the Yanks have a nice collection of good catching prospects. I think Cashman would probably like to keep him but its obvious he isn't running the club anymore and Steinbrenner wants to win now. The Yanks don't need a #1 or even #2 but a #3 is crucial to their battle with Boston. Colon and Garcia have been great but they are on borrowed time. Wandy makes all the sense in the world. Wandy for Montero and Manny Banuelos makes a lot of sense for both sides. Yanks still have more pitching and catching depth ready to move up and Stros add two young exciting depth to the minor league system.
I would think it's unlikely to get either Montero or Banuelos for Wandy but there's no way in the world you'd get both. Montero will probably be a first baseman and while he'll likely be a better mlber than Wallace, I'm not sure Astros would make that more. The strength of the Yankee system is catching, but I likewise don't think the Astros would Wally Pip Jason Castro. Banuelos and Betances are both elite pitching prospects in AA. I'd ask for one of them, but I think it's unlikely New York parts with either. Maybe if they get desperate.
Yea I see your point. Although, I am a believer that if you can get a talent like Montero then do it and worry about Castro next season. I think defensivly Castro Is better but Montero is miles better on offense. Add to that, Castro coming off a big time injury and I'd pull the trigger yesterday on a deal for Montero and another decent prospect.
