Assuming we're actually down to 2 candidates, who do you pick?

Hmmm...kind of surprised that JVG is winning the poll. Someone must be stuffing the ballots cause it seems like more people would prefer Dunleavy based on reading the actual posts.

 

Or they don't need to post to validate themselves.

 

I want "none of the above".

 

I can't think a coach I be more dissappointed with having than Dunleavy. Talk about a guy who never could get a team to play better than the sum of their parts. He had a championship caliber team with an open pocketbook and could never get it done.

We need a coach with a heavy dose of discipline, leadership, perspective and energy, someone to get the team to play better than a collection of individual talents.

I would have to say Carlisle or JVG would be my first choice of those left, than a Nelson, then admitting firing Rudy was a mistake, than some no-name with potential. But Dunleavy is a less capable Rudy, a cheaper energetic noname with potential would be better.

 

And here I thought he didn't get an offer because he was still under contract. Like him or not, when JVG was coaching the Knicks OVERACHIEVED and made the 2nd round playoffs, EC or not. And when he got fired/walked out, the Knicks plummeted with basically the same cast of players. Boggles the mind.

 

Ok, I've been away working, but I'll take a crack at this.

Mario and AJ are guys that never had mad game. Magic and Drexler always did.

Mario and AJ would play effectively and beat better players and better teams with fundementals. AJ had that little killer pull up jumper. How'd that little guy score on me? It's embarrassing. He'd play more effective than "better" players. That made the "better" players rethink their game. He could prove his point. Now if Clyde Drexler take you to the rack, what do you learn ? Nothing. You can't do that. But if slow Mario Elie sees Hakeem clear out and takes it into the teeth of the defense to slam it, you see how to watch the floor, how to be tough. If Magic hits a teammate with a no-look, do you learn about picks and running the three-on-one? No. But if AJ runs the floor and hits the trailer, you go, damn, little man can play.

That's just part of it. But ultimately, they have the voice of authority and right to chew out others because they had to play the game the right way. There was no other choice. They did it and proved their point.

 

Are you kidding me? Did you see what happened to the Knicks once they started running under Chaney? You seem to think that Latrell Sprewell can run a fast break without turning the ball over, Allan Houston isn't afraid of the paint, and Marcus Camby can run full speed down the court without breaking a hip. You also seem to think Patrick Ewing was some sort of monster from within 10 feet. He was simply one of the best shooters at the C position ever...an ISO center. You can't run an offense with Patrick Ewing as you do with Tim Duncan or Shaquille O'Neal...or Yao Ming. He'd have the personnel to run a viable offense in Houston, trust me on that. Houston's offensive personnel is ten times of what he had in NY.

What the Knicks have done the past two years is what would have happened if the Knicks ran under JVG, they would have been a ****ty team.

 

Sounds good! I'm with you! You must know.....since you are a Knicks fan!

Get Jeff Van Gundy!

Also....when he is broadcasting...he loved it when Raef Lafrentz attacked the basket instead of staying on the perimeter. And that game....Raef did very well by being aggressive and getting easy layups. Maybe Jeff Van Gundy can somehow get Eddie Griffin to play inside more instead of staying around the 3 point line.

Jeff Van Gundy is only 41 years old.

Jeff Van Gundy also spends hours and hours analyzing and scouting the other team. He is a perfectionist. He thinks 50 wins is bad because you still lost the other 20. He wants to win every single game. Even after his team beats the best team in the NBA and they face the worst team next, he still spends the same amount of time studying the next team.

Jeff Van Gundy is also respected by his players.

He's not perfect...but who the heck is left?

Only him and Dunleavy. I'd rather have Van Gundy than Dunleavy.

 

This is Great Thread, More People Should Vote

In terms of who brings a bigger offensive textbook, I'd have to say Dunleavy for now. Barring his stint with Milwaukee, perhaps that's b/c Dunleavy has ALWAYS had at least some duo of talent. Simply put: "you can't run creative plays if you don't have the talent to pull it off." Best example is the sweet Mobley to Francis alley oop. If Francis weren't so athletic, how on Earth can we pull this off? Talent opens many doors to new and exciting offensive plays.

Fact is, JVG never really had much talent to work with. He had aging veterans. He had workhorses (or as I like to call them, "grunts"). And he had a platoon of point guards who ran his plays. Does this mean JVG can not run a more sophisticated or creative offense? No. It just means that, as far as demonstrable performance, we've never really had a chance to see JVG work with outstanding NBA talent. I'm positive that, if given the talent, JVG can do a great job in energizing our offense. Whether or not that offense is exciting of fast... is really a matter of perspective. But my observation would be that, under JVG we'd get:

1. a more systematic and efficient offense - with a greater emphasis on Yao as the 1st option
2. a more half-court oriented offense
3. greater demands for more "patient" PG control of tempo
4. more offensive involvement by our PF at the top of the key
5. **impt** fewer overall turnovers!

Under Dunleavy, we'll probably see:
1. creative sets involving Yao (i.e. pick and rolls, high picks, 15 ft jumpers, etc.)
2. a less systematic offense that is perhaps more guard driven
3. more uptempo basketball
4. more creative plays off inbound passes
5. greater use of the 3 pt line

Bottom line is that I think it's premature to write off JVG as offensively inept. Based on demonstrable performance, Dunleavy is probably the more creative offensive coach. However, again, this question really asks, "stylistically, which direction do we want to head?" I think RudyT's vision of a "motion offense" is more aligned with Dunleavy's mentality. However, I also know that folks on cc.net, including myself, have clamored for a more disciplined and systematic offense. The latter plays to JVG's strengths while the former goals speak to Dunleavy's strengths.

Given the evolution of the West, I personally think JVG's half-court, hard defense, systemtic style will have more efficacy against our Conference rivals. I mean, if you think about how many times, we and other teams, have tried to go head-to-head in outgunning say a Dallas or Sactown, 9 out of 10 times, we will lose b/c we don't have enough firepower. In the instances that we beat these teams, we play to our own tempo and our own style. Despite how some may despise Utah, one has to acknowledge, that there is a reason why that team seems to defy the ages. And that reason is that they have a very astute coach who works a very effective system with players who espouse that system.

My vote is for JVG b/c I like a disciplined a team, and by disciplined, I am talking about a "system" team.

JMHO



theSAGE

 

Rockets Need Someone who is an Authoritorian

The reason why I say that is b/c we DON'T have a healthy mix of veteran and young talent. Rice simply isn't enough. The veterans and playoff-hardened players are the ones who keep "cool" in those all so impt times like 1.end of games, 2.end of season and 3.the playoffs. How many times have we seen the Rox self-destruct and make you want to cry? The emotional rollercoaster, we know as Rocket basketball, has got to stop. The attitude has to change from "YAY we WON, SHUCKS we LOST to 'we have to take care of business, night in, night out."

Question #1: Who epitomizes this philosophy?
Ans: JVG

Moreover, I think players like Yao will respond positively to an authoritarian as opposed to a "player's coach." SF is a little bit tougher to figure out. I can foresee him clashing with a JVG type, but less so, with Dunleavy. And when I think "BIG", I think our Rox need to craft a system utilizing our Yao/SF tandem much like the Lakers do with Shaq and Kobe. Who knows? Maybe if EG or Mobley step up, we'll have a triumpherate of Yao/SF/EG or Yao/SF/Mobes ala Abdul-Jabber/Worthy/Magic. Point is, to think BIG, we need a strong core (which we already have) and a winning system (which our new coach needs to instill). No more time for soul searching. A good coach will identify our strengths and our player strengths and craft a system suited for us.

Question #2: Who was the last dynasty before the Bulls?
Ans: The Lakers under JVG mentor Pat Riley

I think JVG is our man... let's sign him ASAP.



theSAGE

 

I want Van Gundy, but I have a very sick feeling that it is going to be Dunleavy. so at the end of the day we get a coach who is soft and has lost control of at least 1 team possibly 2. Anybody else starting to think maybe our owner and FO are starting to slowly drag the organization down a road of mediocrity for years to come????????

 

To Help Assist Us in Our Voting, Time to Separate Fact from Fiction

FACT - JVG...
1. enjoys diet coke
2. has been involved in bench clearing brawls.
3. was once intimately "attached" to Alonzo Mourning
4. was once inadvertantly head-butted by one of his own players
5. has a brother who, to this day, remains in the shadow of Riley

FICTION -
Contrary to popular belief, JVG...
6. can NOT speak Chinese
7. is NOT over six feet tall
8. never went to the "Gold Club" in Atlanta
9. does NOT drink Pepsi
10. is NOT the guy in the movie 'Ghost'

FACT - Dunleavy...
1. has a talented son who plays on the Warriors
2. was once a Rocket
3. once coached Eric "Mayday" Murdoch
4. once dealt with headcases like Rasheed Wallace
5. once oversaw the rebuilding of the Milwaukee Bucks

FICTION -
However, contrary to popular belief, Dunleavy...
6. is NOT dating Britney Spears
7. does NOT stay indoors
8. does NOT smoke weed with Rasheed
9. is NOT secretly cloning his progeny
10. is NOT Professor X



theSAGE

 

There is such a huge difference in winning in the East than there is in winning in the West.

Does anyone really beleive that the Van Gundy lead Knicks team would have beaten LAL, Houston, SA, Utah or Portland the year he took them to the finals? He would have had no chance in Hell just like he had no chance in Hell of beating the Spurs that year.

 

I voted for Van Gundy but I'm starting to lean towards Dunleavy a little. This has been a very intersting debate w/ good points being made for both coaches and their negatives have been exposed as well.

Oh, and to add to Sage's list: One bad thing about JVG is that he doesn't know who U2 is. Hell I grew up in the hood and I know who U2 is.

 

And for half of his years the Bulls stood in his way. Talk about a team the West couldn't even touch. The fact is he got that Knicks team to win a game versus the Spurs with Chris Dudley, Larry Johnson, Marcus Camby, and Kurt Thomas defending David Robinson and Tim Duncan. That's all that needs to be said about that.

 

This is where you underestimate the Knicks of old and JVG. The West of old isn't the West of today. Lest you forget that Shaq kinda tipped the balance of power when he moved from Orlando to L.A. Webber goes from Washington to Sactown. Big men in the East like Smits retires. And we had a younger and healthier Jordan and Pippen still playing in their prime.

The Knicks D was absolutely incredible. Albeit this is all speculation, I have no doubt that, had the team been healthy, the Knicks would not have gone 4 and out against S.A. And this isn't just the loss of Ewing either. The Knicks suffered multiple casaulties in Larry Johnson and Marcus Camby.

I think what's most unique about JVG's coaching style is that he finds a way to win by imposing his "will" upon the opposition. The Knicks were again, not the most talented of teams. But they played a style of brute-ball that was good enough to get them past Indiana, the Heat, and the Bulls. All of whom, were very very tough teams.That grinding half-court style would stifle any momentum or rhythm the opposition had.

Health is always an X factor. Look at this year with Webber going down and then Nowitski going down the year later. You can't "control" for those factors, and consequently, one can't jump to conclusions on how poorly the coaching was in the subsequent series. JVG's Knicks were outmanned in the Finals against the Spurs. But to get there, much like Byron Scott and his Nets, is itself an achievement.



theSAGE

 

OOOOOOOHHHHHH!!! I'm shaking in my boots. The JVG lead Knicks actually beat the Spurs once out of five.

Winning only one game in a seven game series is an ass whoppin period. There is no way to sugar coat it.

 

All of the moves you mention happened prior to the Knicks going to the finals with JVG. What is your point. The east was not the east of old when JVG took them to the finals. Jordan and Pippen were both gone as was Shaq etc...etc...etc...

That would all be great if you had at least checked your history. The Bulls did not even make the play-offs that year. How good was the east that year? Orlando with out Shaq was tied for the best record at 33 wins for the year. Does not bode well for the rest of the conference.

And much like the Byron Scott coached Nets are nothing more than a formality both last year and this year, the Knicks were no more than a formality in the finals during the 98-99 season as the real NBA championship was decided against LA and SA in the WCF that year.

 

Good job not knowing what you are talking about.