Are We Witnessing the Greatest Shooting Guard in Rockets History?

Yea, and I won't measure a player's career based on their number of championships either. Hakeem at his peak carried a team to a championship without another perennial all-star quality player (I know Thorpe was great and all, but humor me). He did so by dominating on offense and defense. There really isn't another superstar in recent memory that you can say that about. To recreate Hakeem in today's era, it would be as though you took Harden's offense and supplemented it with Dwight's defense.

Harden still has a long way to go for that.

 

2nd paragraph is true. Granted. But are you penalizing Harden for being an efficient player? He gets to the FT line more and he hits more 3's (obviously). That makes him MORE potent than Dream.

Harden's assist numbers and his above avg rebound numbers are also sick. Harden also top 10 in steals. So Dream was probably the best 2-way player ever but Harden's stats are just as impressive, albeit different.

Harden ain't Dream. Don't mince my words. Just saying, the comparisons now are not just at SG. The comparisons now are against the best ever. ...and he's only 25.

 

Slow your role.

While it's arguable Harden's offense is better then Dream's, the defensive impact between the two makes it impossible for Harden to eclipse Olajuwon in on-court talent. Harden may win more championships and MVPs, but Hakeem could control a game strickly with defense.

You sound like you don't know Dream is Top 10 ALL-TIME in steals.

 

He's already better than McGrady any season any team

 

ahh hell, if Harden could become Equals with The Dream that alone would be amazing.

 

If Harden finishes the season on this pace (and wins MVP), he will be equal with Dream ...for a single season.

 

OK, you clearly have an irrational disdain for McGrady if you don't even put him in this conversation.

I mean Harden right now is better than McGrady ever was in Houston except maybe '04-05 (when I guess Mac played more SF than SG), but McGrady was not that far behind, even though he wasn't as successful on the box score.

That said, yeah, Harden is obviously on pace to become the best perimeter player in Rockets history. Maybe, just maybe, he can even pass Hakeem one day. He's only 25, afterall. Gotta see what he does in May and June, and how long he does it for.

 

I don't think some of you realize how amazing Dream was. He was a TRUE two-way player. Shot creator, scorer, shooter, good free throw shooter, and facilitator on the offense. Shot blocker, stealing, helping, capable of defending any position, defensive anchor. He could literally do it all. Harden is a better pure scorer, but Hakeem was the ace on BOTH ends. He did not need a team lineup meant to cover his shortcomings. Hakeem covered for the team's shortcomings.

 

Harden CAN be better than Dream (would need a whole hell of a lot to do it), but it would likely require him to be a much better offensive force than Dream was and get his defense to be 1/2 as good as Dream was (I don't believe he can be better than 1/2 as good as Dream on that end).

 

I'm actually penalizing Harden for being a playmaking guard that has the ball in his hands most of the time and can create his own offense, unlike bigs who need someone to throw them the ball.

I'm also penalizing the Rockets/Ray Patterson/Charlie Thomas for surrounding Dream with crap after the 86 finals and before Steve Patterson/ Rudy T took over. If Daryl Morey was Gm back then we'd may have Dream up there with MJ in MVPs and rings.

 

Gonna get ripped for saying it, but Harden is more Robinson than Hakeem offensively. "Lefty who gets to the FT line at will, but struggles in the playoffs"

I love how Harden has taken his game to another level this year. But he needs to do it in the playoffs if he wants to build a legacy comparable to the Dream.

IMO, he's a better Rocket than Tracy was. I was a huge McGrady fan and his athleticism/length allowed him to do things Harden just couldn't, like guard Dirk and thoroughly outplay him over a 7 game series. But Houston McGrady just settled for way too many jumpers. Harden is more of a PnR monster who relies on penetration and enjoys getting to the rim. His game is just so much more efficient than T-Mac's was.

'03 Orlando T-Mac is a different story. That guy was a phenomenon who was every bit as good as prime Kobe, arguably better. Us Rockets fans never got to see that guy in Houston because that nagging back injury took away some of his athleticism and made him think twice about attacking the rim. I still wouldn't put '15 Harden on '03 T-Mac's level, but I'd take him over any Rockets version of T-Mac.

 

Meh, Harden played really well in the playoffs with OKC outside of that finals. He was the reason they beat SA, not KD, definitely not Westbrook.

Everyone struggles once in a while in the playoffs.

As for the Tmac comparison, I agree completely. But Harden isn't SUPER FAR off from being consistantly the 03 Tmac, which was Tmac's best season.

 

Name a player in league history who is much better offensively than Dream.

 

You criticize McGrady for not taking us into the second round yet excuse Harden for not doing it thus far. Hypocrite much?

 

Harden the GOAT shooting guard Rockets history REGULAR season. He's attained that status

Harden needs a good postseason showing to cement his place.

 

Playoffs McGrady Rockets > Playoffs Harden Rockets

Harden regular season > McGrady regular season

Replace Playoffs Harden with Playoffs McGrady last year, Rockets advance past Blazers in 6.

Can legitimately cite lack of help for McGrady. Not so much the case for Harden last year.

Thats the blemish against Harden, I think its in back of people's minds. We know Harden is for real. Its now about it translating into the postseason

 

Come on people. Have some sense and leave Hakeem out of this discussion.

 

I'm not comparing careers. I'm comparing single seasons. It's an apt comparison. Dream gets the SLIGHT edge, right now. (Of course, Dream went on to win a title that year so there's that.) But don't discount how well Harden is playing. For a single season, Harden will have posted a top 5 single season performance, maybe top 2 or 3. Dream only avg more than 27ppg twice.

Dream at age 32
<TABLE id=per_game class="sortable row_summable stats_table"> <THEAD> <TR> <TH class=tooltip align=right data-stat="g" tip="Games">G</TH> <TH class=tooltip align=right data-stat="gs" tip="Games Started">GS</TH> <TH class=tooltip align=right data-stat="mp_per_g" tip="Minutes Played Per Game">MP</TH> <TH class=tooltip align=right data-stat="fg_per_g" tip="Field Goals Per Game">FG</TH> <TH class=tooltip align=right data-stat="fga_per_g" tip="Field Goal Attempts Per Game">FGA</TH> <TH class=tooltip align=right data-stat="fg_pct" tip="Field Goal Percentage">FG%</TH> <TH class=tooltip align=right data-stat="fg3_per_g" tip="3-Point Field Goals Per Game">3P</TH> <TH class=tooltip align=right data-stat="fg3a_per_g" tip="3-Point Field Goal Attempts Per Game">3PA</TH> <TH class=tooltip align=right data-stat="fg3_pct" tip="3-Point Field Goal Percentage">3P%</TH> <TH class=tooltip align=right data-stat="fg2_per_g" tip="2-Point Field Goals Per Game">2P</TH> <TH class=tooltip align=right data-stat="fg2a_per_g" tip="2-Point Field Goal Attempts Per Game">2PA</TH> <TH class=tooltip align=right data-stat="fg2_pct" tip="2-Point Field Goal Percentage">2P%</TH> <TH class=tooltip align=right data-stat="ft_per_g" tip="Free Throws Per Game">FT</TH> <TH class=tooltip align=right data-stat="fta_per_g" tip="Free Throw Attempts Per Game">FTA</TH> <TH class=tooltip align=right data-stat="ft_pct" tip="Free Throw Percentage">FT%</TH> <TH class=tooltip align=right data-stat="orb_per_g" tip="Offensive Rebounds Per Game">ORB</TH> <TH class=tooltip align=right data-stat="drb_per_g" tip="Defensive Rebounds Per Game">DRB</TH> <TH class=tooltip align=right data-stat="trb_per_g" tip="Total Rebounds Per Game">TRB</TH> <TH class=tooltip align=right data-stat="ast_per_g" tip="Assists Per Game">AST</TH> <TH class=tooltip align=right data-stat="stl_per_g" tip="Steals Per Game">STL</TH> <TH class=tooltip align=right data-stat="blk_per_g" tip="Blocks Per Game">BLK</TH> <TH class=tooltip align=right data-stat="tov_per_g" tip="Turnovers Per Game">TOV</TH> <TH class=tooltip align=right data-stat="pf_per_g" tip="Personal Fouls Per Game">PF</TH> <TH class=tooltip align=right data-stat="pts_per_g" tip="Points Per Game">PTS</TH></TR></THEAD> <TBODY></TBODY></TABLE>

<TABLE id=per_game class="sortable row_summable stats_table"> <TBODY> <TR id=per_game.1995 class=full_table style= target="_blank" aqua.png);? images-001 d2ft4b0ve1aur1.cloudfront.net http:> <TD align=right>72</TD> <TD align=right>72</TD> <TD align=right>39.6</TD> <TD align=right>11.1</TD> <TD align=right>21.5</TD> <TD align=right>.517</TD> <TD align=right>0.0</TD> <TD align=right>0.2</TD> <TD align=right>.188</TD> <TD align=right>11.0</TD> <TD align=right>21.2</TD> <TD align=right>.520</TD> <TD align=right>5.6</TD> <TD align=right>7.5</TD> <TD align=right>.756</TD> <TD align=right>2.4</TD> <TD align=right>8.4</TD> <TD align=right>10.8</TD> <TD align=right>3.5</TD> <TD align=right>1.8</TD> <TD align=right>3.4</TD> <TD align=right>3.3</TD> <TD align=right>3.5</TD> <TD align=right>27.8</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>

Harden at age 25 (so far)
<TABLE id=per_game class="sortable row_summable stats_table"> <TBODY> <TR id=per_game.2015 class=full_table style= target="_blank" aqua.png);? images-001 d2ft4b0ve1aur1.cloudfront.net http:> <TD align=right>59</TD> <TD align=right>59</TD> <TD align=right>36.6</TD> <TD align=right>8.1</TD> <TD align=right>18.0</TD> <TD align=right>.447</TD> <TD align=right>2.6</TD> <TD align=right>6.9</TD> <TD align=right>.381</TD> <TD align=right>5.4</TD> <TD align=right>11.1</TD> <TD align=right>.489</TD> <TD align=right>8.3</TD> <TD align=right>9.6</TD> <TD align=right>.866</TD> <TD align=right>0.9</TD> <TD align=right>4.9</TD> <TD align=right>5.8</TD> <TD align=right>6.9</TD> <TD align=right>1.9</TD> <TD align=right>0.8</TD> <TD align=right>4.0</TD> <TD align=right>2.6</TD> <TD class=" bold_text" align=right>27.1</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>
http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/o/olajuha01.html

If you compare careers, it's no contest.

 

Harden is close to Hakeem on offense only. Then you consider defense and forget it