Toronto is good. Anyone who isn't recognizing it is not a very intelligent basketball fan. Their starting five are really good, and they have a historically great bench.
Taken from a thread posted over in the GARM. To their credit they play with a consistent high effort, particularly that young bench. That has led to them dominating the games they are supposed to win to the tune of 26-2. If take them seriously means win the east, then yes I take them very seriously. Cleveland has fallen and isn't getting up. But if take them seriously means actually have a chance to take 4 of 7 from us or GS, no I don't.
Oh you've watched their careers huh? that's the kinda uninformed r****dation people use to discredit the Rockets and Harden, oh I've watched Harden all he does is flop, play no defense and choke in the playoffs etc. etc. Raptors are on pace to win 60 games (they won 51 last season just for reference), They have the second highest point differential in the league only behind the Rockets.
Not only do the Raptors have the second best point differential in the league, they have the best differential for an eastern conference team since the 66-win Cavs way back in 2009.
Let's not go nuts and claim that the Raptors have been as good as the Rockets. Since 2012-13, Harden's first year here and Lowry's first year in Toronto, we have a better W/L record, a higher SRS rating, and we've consistently faced stiffer postseason competition by virtue of playing in the Western Conference. Lowry and DeRozan have both faded down the stretch every single year, and it's cost them in the playoffs, despite the fact that they were up against much weaker opponents than us. They lost to Brooklyn in '14 (-1.57 SRS), Washington in '15 (0.17 SRS), barely got past Indy and Miami in '16 (1.62 & 1.5 SRS, respectively), and were swept by last year's Cavs (2.87 SRS). Compare those teams to OKC in '13 (9.15), Portland (4.44), Dallas (3.36), the Clippers (6.8), Golden State twice (10.01, 10.38), and San Antonio (7.13), and you can see why I think it's a BS comparison. Apples and bowling balls. There's nothing hypocritical about a Rockets fan being skeptical of Toronto's playoff chances.
again youre trying to make it relate to the rockets and harden for whatever reason when it doesnt apply. had the rockets remain the same team without upgrading significantly, their ceiling would be the exact same.. The celing for the raptors has not changed. i have no clue why you think its some dramatic difference. and they won 56 the year before that and the 2nd seed. (just for reference)
It's because their two best players don't play as well in the playoffs as they do in the regular season. Bench play is not as valuable in the playoffs as in the regular season (starters play extended minutes). JV is a slow center that will be irrelevant in small ball lineups (or Harden PnRs will feast on him for example), and while Ibaka is playing better this year than last, he's still not going to be his peak form anymore. OG Anunoby is a rookie (probably will under perform like nearly all rookies in the playoffs) that is limited offensively when compared to counterparts on other contenders, which will be heavily exploited. And yes, I think their team stats are inflated because Leastern Conference. Noronto Laptors are a fools gold contender that won't win a championship in the Derozan era. @ me fams. Bookmark this thread, this post will stand the test of time. And please, stop with the Rockets comparison. CC is actually playable against small ball teams due to athleticism, Harden/CP3 are >>> Derozan/Lowry. Ariza can shoot much better than OG, and Ibaka is not big enough to abuse Tucker down low. EGo is miles better than any bench thread the Raptors have. No matter the regular season results we may have against this team, we are objectively better at nearly every position.
So just following the logic on this Harden is going to disappear in the playoffs and CP3 is going to choke again.
CP3's choking playoff narrative is lazy, and yes, Harden does under perform in the playoffs, relative to his regular season numbers. This is why we are still underdogs to the Warriors (and deservedly so) in the playoffs. https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/d/derozde01.html https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/l/lowryky01.html Stats and memory both confirm the Laptors duo have been very underwhelming performers for years. It's not even a debate that they have a massive historical precedent for this. What will change this year to say otherwise? Lowry being on the wrong side of 30? https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/h/hardeja01.html It's not a narrative if it is, well, true. Stats and memory both confirm this. It doesn't mean his numbers are objectively bad, but they are definitely noticeably worse in playoffs vs. regular season. Meanwhile, last year for example, Lebron for elevated his game when compared to the regular season.
I only wished we could have had Harden and Lowry to combat those mediocre years. Lowry is a good partner in crime not named Paul.
once again this logic does not apply. dd/lowry have been together for years. their ceiling has been established for quite some time now. how many years has hou's backcourt played together. their ceiling is very much unknown and by the looks of things as high as an actual championship
Someone has to win, someone has to lose, just because you lost a lot of times does not mean you're just a losers and that's it, losing makes you stronger (not all the time) and hungrier, you don't think Raptors are better. Its just saddens me how people like to put labels on EVERYTHING in their lives and then act like they're intelligent human beings, whateva Raptors could do and would do= chokers, will get rekt in playoffs. And then you wonder why people non Rockets fans **** on Harden, i go to Celtics forum and they're like: Harden just floping, looking for fouls any given time even when no defenders around. GSW forum= both Harden and Cp3 Flopers and this and that. People on this forum constantly bring Kellerman and his idiotic analysis, but you just turn around and can't give an announce respect to anyone else improving. OK.
Great post. Although this is a forum for discussion, with people's opinions. There are so many people with absolute thoughts on things.
I don't trust them in the playoffs against LeBron or even Kyrie and the Celtics for that matter. Playoffs are all about superstars rising to the occasion and carrying their team. Toronto's two stars Lowry and DeRozan are 2nd tier guys for me like outside the top 10 players.
