Are Players too Young...or just black players

I wasn't replying to you, just an opinion in general. I would propose that the NBA set up a true minor league like baseballs, in which major league teams can send their players who aren't ready for the NBA because its clear that college is just not an option for a lot of them.

If the NBA thought it was a profitable venture, I'm sure they would do that. However, I'm not sure minor league basketball in the U.S. would be financially viable.

 

1. I personally have never complained about high schoolers entering the league. I'm all for it.

2. But, I think the outcry against high schoolers was a fad of the Kwame draft. I don't see too many people complaining that Lebron James is too young -- not like they did with Brown, Chandler, Curry, etc. Maybe people are now tired of talking about it.

3. Just an alternate theory: It could be that's it is not a racial thing at all but a xenophobic thing. That is, we are concerned for the development and social standing of our young black professional athletes because they represent black America in their way. And, by hoping they will go to school and educate themselves, they can move up in society intellectually as well as economically. But, with the foreign players we don't feel a need to nurture them and provide for the long-term success of their families. We don't care if they mortgage their futures for immediate basketball success because they are not Americans. Maybe, maybe no.

4. Related to #3, blacks are a minority in this country and we feel an added responsibility to equalize our society, especially in education. Milicic is not a minority in Yugoslavia; most of the foreign prospects are not standard-bearers for the oppressed. So, what does it matter in their respective countries if some of the majority are uneducated athletes when others are doctors and professors and such?

5. I think that the focus on education is overmuch and, really, a bit outdated. I think much of the complaint stems from the felling that athletics was seen as a ticket to a college education for blacks that would otherwise not be able to get one. And, I think times have changed enough that this is less true and there is much less pressure now on people who have a ticket to college to actually use that ticket. It is an option open to black athletes, now, and they shouldn't have to use it just because it's open.

 

I agree with this. And the fact that top US highschool kids were always destined for the NBA in time.

Euro's are a new pool of talent. If a US kid went to college for a few years, we'd soon see him in the NBA. Theoretically better prepared. Resulting in a better NBA.

The Euro's are new. So we don't see them as 'high-school Euro's and Experienced Euro's' but rather just 'Euro's' If they, as a group, prove not ready for the NBA (as many of the highschool kids did) then we'll see the backlash against Euro players.

As an aside, I don't want a farm system. I like the fact that the NBA draft often has an immediate impact on a team. Not so fond of MLB and NHL where draft picks don't make the team for several years.

 

I think this all depends on what these kids where like during H.S. I mean, first of all, were they good students in H.S.? Or did they get "Fs"? If they were bad students in H.S. and then use basketball as a crutch, that's a bad system. I mean, how many players actually make it to the NBA? There are 450 players are in the league. So, there has to be a some resemblance of balance.

There seems to be a lot more places in Europe were players can "make a living" at bball, than here in the USA. So, although a European might drop out of H.S. to join a pro-league, at least he has job. Seems to me that he'd be "uneducated" no matter what; no mentorship, no family to help him, etc...

But to be "exploiting" young poor black kids in the name of "finding that one gem" would be like a "chop shop."

Since the USA offers less in terms of bball playing jobs, I think there has to be some type of effort on the league in order to at least encourage some type of mentorship or education. There's just not a lot of jobs in the NBA to fulfill these "basketball dreams."

Oh a good note. Maybe development leagues could have internal programs for H.S. dropouts (failures) that offer junior college programs. So, instead of having uneducated kids playing bball for small change (even though they would be developing their bbskills) they could also get another opportunity to get some type of education.

 

First hand, I have had 10+ people tell me over the years about how repulsed they are that basketball players and rap stars make millions. I've never had anyone complain to me about movie stars making $20M a film or Nascar drivers making millions. hmmmm....

 

Pau Gasol

 

Just as long as I am on record as saying that the whole "kids should stay in school instead of coming into the NBA" is the definition of Racism 2K; not that most people say or think something as explicit as "I think those dark skinned folks need to stay in school but for whitey its okay" but the argument holds no water when compared to white contemporaries like freaking figure skaters, baseball players and whoever else. The NCAA is held together with hypocracy with a good dash of New Racism. I mean, Kobe Bryant made the wrong choice, but all those minor league pitchers getting paid $18K per year with little shot of making the big leagues are cool? Like those scrub 15 year old tennis prodigies are okay? Whatever.

And by the way, having your ass kissed by an enitre campus of students, teachers, skanks, coaches, administrators and alumni for four years does not encourage any sort of healthy emotional maturation. I would imagine it acutally stunts it. Mix in the fact that these "stars" are poor and famous (bad combination), and you are encouraging kids to sneak ways of living the most comfortable life they have access to.

Screw the NCAA, screw false 'in-the-kids-best-interest' rules for young athletes, and screw little anorexic figure skaters who become heros to self-hating chicks everywhere.

Go Moses Malone.

CBFC

 

GO CBFC

 

I had that exact same argument about a week ago. You don't see anyone complaining if Leonardo DeCaprio makes $25 million for Titanic or if Julia Roberts makes $19 million for Erin Brockovich. Aren't they entertainers, just like basketball players? I do believe race plays a big part in what people think, but i do believe this writer is out of line. I think it was an uneducated article and he didn't provide much proof at all about his accusation.

Also - keep in mind, how many players in the last decade who have jumped from high school to the L have been white? None, as far as I remember. He has no argument. Foreign players are completely different than American high schoolers, and this would be a good topic if he could compare black and white HSers.

 

I completely agree. That's why I said, #1, I'm all for having high school grads in the NBA. I think you'd be insane to pass up a guaranteed 3-year contract so you can go to school. I don't know why more players don't skip college.

The theory was based on the idea that most of the complainers do value college that highly though and believe it to be the vehicle of true social mobility. The perception might be wrong, but that doesn't keep it from being the perception. I was pointing it out as a possibility because the racial double-standard might not be nefarious; it might actually be motivated by having more love for the black Americans than for the white foreigners, reversing the customary racist hierarchy.

 

Please don't try to tell us that this is the rule, rather than the exception. This is true for the 21 -22 Euro picks like Gasol, but this is not really true for the 17-18yr guys.

I know it has been written, but I consider this a naive overstatement and confusing talk about Gasol and his experience in the pros at 19, 20, 21, and confusing that a lot of writing was based on the junior team and senior team experience they get is in practice, not much PT in competition.

The idea that they get a lot of experience against men is a comparison to our players going to the NCAA instead. The European 16yrs are not playing with the men, certainly not commonly....

This is from the Chronicle

there are junior teams associated the vet teams...and i'm not talking just about the nationals. look at Beckham in soccer, for instance. Manchester United signed him at age 16, but he didn't play his first pro game until age 18, and he was regarded as being rare in his ability to actually play with the vet squad. Few of these young players make it to the vet team.

That is in fact being reported as why Milicic is so highly tauted--the fact that he actually got some playing time with the vet squad. Tsiki played spot minutes in his last year, too...and i don't believe he got any minutes the yrs before.

this is from the chronicle:

I'm not denying Milicic isn't special, and has been playing on the senior team. But he is the exception, not the rule. He is an anomaly, not a stereotype. He is 7'1.

 

I think this has to do with race but it goes way beyond that. No one complains about what Denzell Washington or Halle Berry makes, and at the same time, people always complain about baseball salaries a sport that still has a majority of white players.

I think there are several factors here, first race, salaries have increased with the increase of minorities in sports. Secondly, the way we view movie stars and athletes in this country are different. I think people have much more admiration and a sense of awe in the presence of movie stars than athletes. We also tend to admire their work more. Most of us who have participated in organized athletics have some warped view of reality that we can compete with professionals which I find ironic because almost all of us have a lot better chance of becoming a movie star than a NBA or NFL star.

 

There's a factor not mentioned here. Basketball is a street sport in America. Baseball, Football, Figure skating, movie-making are not. You need some sort of organization to do these things, and that means some sort of money. Not so with basketball. You can play basketball with a ball and a hoop on the street. You don't even have to have somebody to play with you.

This means that there are a lot more poor kids who have NBA dreams than MLB, NFL, Olympics, or Hollywood dreams. The chances of any of these kids ever can make a living in the NBA is extremely slim. I agree with Juan's "love" theory. Those who decry of HS players jumping to pro feel that this would only add fuel to the unrealistic dreams of so many poor black kids. They would have been better off spending their time studying and get a job as accountant, engineer, lawyer, teacher, etc. than practicing hoops.

I personally don't think teenagers in the pro adds anymore incentives to the dreaming kids. And I also think the NCAA is a load of hypocricy. The college athletes are not getting an education. Those who are could have gotten it without being an athlete anyway. What needs to be done is a better system to screen young players at an earlier age. Those who don't get picked early on can forget about their NBA dream and still have time to catchup with their education.

 

Some of these replies suggest the backlash against HS kids in the NBA is about the welfare of the kids. It isn't.

It's about the quality of play in the NBA. Colleges are still offering the same number of scholarships. Maybe lesser talent college basketball players apply themselves more to their studies as they don't have the same illusions about the NBA. That small group of kids is getting educated, and world's a better place -- start flowery inspirational music here.

Big business sports is about big business sports. Not about helping kids getting an education. Raising the bar to 20 years old provides a training league where the risk remains with the athlete -- don't develop or get hurt, don't get paid -- and provides the teams with better talent, and usable talent to draft later.

The Euro's haven't been part of that backlash, because they were never in the NCAA training league.

This is one time, I don't think it's about race.

 

Sinatra didn't finish high school. Most of the legendary (white) baseball players certainly didn't attend college. It seems odd that this is only a problem for pro basketball.

 

This is the most convincing angle to me. Little "white boys" joining minor league baseball teams don't hurt the profit at the gate or on TV for major league teams. 16-yr-old anorexic skater girls are good at what they do -- they don't fall down all the time and miss their jumps in competitions. They often freaking win their competitions.

So I hear, say, CBFC's arguments, but I think there are notable differences, and we have to be careful with some of these comparisons to other sports.

 

Too young is too young. When I say "too young", I don't mean they should stay in school to learn something (although that would not hurt ANYONE, black, white, whatever). I mean that most of these really young guys will have a hard time making an immediate impact in the NBA and might have a steadier and ultimately better development basketball-wise if they spend some time in college or in a lesser league (Europe) where they will get more playing time. You will see that with Milicic. I think he will need quite some time to get accustomed to the NBA. Why do people have to bring race into everything?

 

I think the whole premise of the article needs to be rethought.

These days, is there really that much outrage over high school players declaring for the NBA? In the past we had the Leon Smiths and Korleone Youngs of the world, not to mention those kids who declared but weren't even drafted. They were the poster children for why high school players shouldn't have been allowed in the draft. We don't see kids like that these days. Kids thinking about declaring for the NBA are much more informed. They go to workouts, pro scouts see their games, etc... For example, Kendrick Perkins said that he'd go to college at Memphis if he wasn't going to be a first round pick. They can make better decisions on whether or not they are ready to declare for the NBA draft.

These days, the outrage should be over kids who put all their eggs into making it into the NBA... NBA or bust. We'll never see the high school kid who dedicates his life to basketball but doesn't even have the talent to play at the college level. Or a kid who focuses so much on basketball that he doesn't even have the grades to get into college. How many thousands of these kids are there? In my book it's bordering on a social illness.

I think this is where socioeconomics, and to a lesser degree, race, comes into play. I say socioeconomics because I'd feel the same way if it was white kids stunting their lives by focusing on basketball. The fact is that aspiring NBA players at all levels, especially high school, have misguided ideas about how difficult it is to actually make it to the pro level. They think they are NBA material when objectively, they are not.

Generally, a higher socioeconomic level equates to a high education level, and the higher the education level, the higher a person's ability to make well thought out decisions about his life. To what extent this is true is debatable and there are always exceptions of course, but I'm talking in general terms.

Basketball does have its roots in the streets (Easy is right on)... and the fact is that in predominantly African-American urban areas, basketball is the sport of choice. The black kid from the streets is more likely to devote his life to basketball in attempt to break out of his socioeconomic level when compared to a middle class white (or black) kid because that kid is in the middle class because his parents had a combination of decent job/high level of education to get him there. Those parents have first hand knowledge of the value of a good education that they can pass along to the child. For the poor kid, without parents who had the benefit of a good education, I can see it as a nasty, viscious cycle passed down from generation to generation. White, Black, it doesn't matter. I say white and black above because of the current state of society. I'd see it the same way if it was white kids living in the streets focusing on basketball. This should apply to the poor white (and to a lesser degree, black) kids who devote their lives to baseball and wash out. With baseball, it's just not as prevalent... maybe because it's been this way for so long, I dunno.

CBFC, you are the man. Easy, I really like your idea of an early screening system... there is a related thread about NBA minor leagues... as part of the solution I'd maybe like to see a league subsidized basketball academy, like the Bolleteri (sp?) sports academy in Florida. Get the kids in early... get the ones without the potential and basketball aptitude out and back into the classroom out as soon as possible.