Any way you look at it, this season has been a complete waste of time

I meant to say...wins in championship games...not necessarily wins more games during the regular season.

 

Roger that.

HAVING A GOOD COACH IS IMPORTANT, TOO.

 

What youre really saying is that Sacamento will not win a championship unless Chris Webber or Mike Bibby outplays Shaq, Kobe or Tim Duncan.

In other words, the chances of Sacramento winning in the next 5 years is probably non-existent.

Do you really believe that?

 

You know, I never said that. Why does a discussion about the failure of stars always become something about championships.

Forget championships. When we are talking the need for drastic changes...what is "The Answer." Kenny for Posey?? Mobley for Snow? The coach? Everything but Francis?

What's the point...Just clean shop except excuse Francis and Yao's need to improve drastically to win a ring...and to improve noticeably to be a contender.

If you think minor things (even in sum) are "The Answer," I think what you are really saying is you still have patience in Francis and Yao, and some might actually be trying to excuse them....by saying the role players and coach are holding them back.

 

Yes.

 

Ok. lets assume Chris Webber has the playoff series of his life and makes it to the championships and they play NJ or Philadelphia.

Are you saying that if Chris Webber plays worse than Jason Kidd or Allen Iverson, the Kings would lose to Philadelphia or NJ?

It's all about the Stars right?

 

ANYWAYS...this season was disappointing.

I expected them to at least make 8th place.

But I discovered that they cannot execute properly for more than 5 consecutive games.

They need a coach. Coaches do make a difference.

Larry Brown...wow.

Like the Kansas guy. Resigns to join NC.

Please do that Larry! Or Pat...

 

I don't think there is one magic panacea.

However, given the limitations, it's easier to add quality players than trying to redo the entire team.

There is no doubt that if the Rockets ever actually contend, Yao and Francis must get better. That is a given. It is a prerequisite to everything.

However, role players and coaches can often limit a team's ability to succeed. That is also a big part of it.

For example, how many more games would the Rockets have won had EG and James Posey been reliable scorers.

Let's assume Hakeem was playing with the Rockets and instead of Sam Cassell or Robert Horry standing at the 3 point line, you have James Posey and EG. That's a pretty scary thought.

Both have to happen. Yao and Francis must improve and we must surround them with the right players.

Many people assume that the right role players are as easy as picking fruit off a tree. That's totally false in today's salary cap environment. You must still make astute decisions.

And while we're waiting for the engine to be built, should we stop collecting the right spare parts?

Making offseason moves to improve the team does not mean it's an excuse for Francis or Yao. They are not mutually exclusive.

 

I'm talking about the HOF Star theory is a requirement to becoming a legit contender. We didn't have anyone playing close to a HOFer this year--or even a "real All-Star, son"...who disputes that?

Your list are all legitimate MVP candidates/HOFer types with slight differences that can be enhanced by systems and role players. Further, Webber did outplay Nowitzki last playoffs....and Shaq outplayed Duncan. But that's beside the point.

We are talking that this threads is screaming for drastic changes that require either great depth or great players.

The "star theory" as I'm stating it is is that Antawn Jamison is a star, too, but the difference between Jamison and other West PFs is clear. The difference between Francis and what we expect of him is clear. We expect Yao to dominate more. Either Yao becomes truly MVP dominating or Francis delivers like Iverson or a HOF PG. Believing in that is called patience.

Believing we are perennial Top 4 material without one or the other of those is not grounded in history.

 

I don't know if this is all, but I think these are some of the things we should do:

- Get new assistant coaches. I feel that we are getting outcoached more often than not and our players are not really showing much improvement. Isn't Larry Smith supposed to be a "big man" coach? Then why has Eddie Griffin practically not improved at all and why does Cato get as many minutes as Yao Ming and all of a sudden when Larry Smith takes over, Yao's confidence and numbers go down? Plus, Larry S. sounds a bit r****ded and his substitution patterns seem worse than Rudy's.

- Get some people from winning teams - some people who have a winning track record. That's one of the concerns I have with this team - too many players who are complacent and accustomed to losing. What good is a "veteran" who has never gotten anywhere - what has he proved so far? Nothing, really.

- Carefully move Yao towards adapting a more aggressive playing style. The games I have seen, Yao Ming was not assertive enough. He was great in stretches, but somehow it seemed like he was holding back a bit.

- Tell Mobley - if he stays - what his role on the team is and what he has to do. If he does not defer, bench him immediately and if that still does not help, ultimately trade him.

- Get rid of players who are losing, but still have fun. Players who do not seem to care. I think Francis definitely cares. Moochie doesn't seem like he cares at all.

- Give Boki a chance. Otherwise, hold those responsible who wasted a 15th pick in the draft.

- Get some real 3-point threats from free agency - and players with a good attitude who really care about winning or losing or making the playoffs.

 

Yes, yes, and yes.

 

But my main point is the one you made before, that Webber will not get past Shaq/Kobe or Duncan in the West. Against the East, who knows, normally the Western teams should win.

 

In my opinion, the Bulls may have never won if they didn't trade Oakley for Cartwright. A role player trade, yes, but teams have needs, and sometimes something that little can push you over the top.

Regardless, while I disagree about the "it happens this way, every time" position, I do agree that in this case, improving Yao and Francis is the most important part. I personally don't see Francis improving significantly.

 

What about the three they won after that with Luc Longley. Role players factor into it but it comes down to what the Jordans and Pippens do.

 

I guess you and I can talk ball forever. lol

So, can you define Yao and Francis? If you can't, how can you define the "right" role players. If Yao is as good as Jabbar on offense...well, you know, Jabbar sucked in the playoffs unless he was matched with Oscar or Magic. There's no chance Francis becomes that good, so we probably find another all-star, which doesn't happen in "addition by subtraction" Mobley trades.

Can Yao dominate on defense...if not, can we hide Francis's defense at the 2? Shouldn't we go for a stud PF, which maybe only Francis delivers, or maybe Cat/Griffin in our dreams.

Can Yao run a high post offense, if so, starting 2 SGs is not that bad of an idea, or at least says that trading Mobley for a non-shooting PG is not the right role players, depending on how good Yao gets.

Can Francis become as good as Iverson...if Yao peaks at Smits, instead of Jabbar??? If not, maybe we better trade Mobley/Griffin for a power forward, or consider Francis for a star power forward.

Can he learn to run a fast break? If he can learn to be a better PG or at least learn to run a fastbreak, then Posey, Mobley and solid team defense can be the right parts.

Can you choose the right spare parts before you know how the engine works? Or do you wait to see Yao in his 2nd year, and whether Francis can make Yao better...or even make himself better by exploiting defenses that focus too much on Yao...or just maybe a little bit of consistency from him.

In other words,,,I don't know. How can we say anything is "The Answer" or even part of the answer.

All I know is Francis for Kidd is a no-brainer, imo, if offered.

 

ROGER THAT. That is what I said and everyone else said basically...

Get new assistant coaches. They don't have to be famous. They have to at least be knowledgeable and good analyzers and give good advice. Rudy needs it. Van Chancellor would be nice.

Get winners. Our team is full of losers. And the winners should be veterans! Hey! Two in one! Avery Johnson...still...even they are winners...you could be talking about like Mark Madsen. He didn't do crap. He just was on a winning team. Or Brent Price. He's on the Kings. I guess he is a winner. I think we need guys like Toni Kukoc. If you watch him...he is playing well while he is teaching and mentoring the youngsters. I want someone like Kukoc except someone who makes much less money. Usually...we should get winner veteran point guards. They tend to be more intelligent about the game.

Yes. Yao Ming needs to be more aggressive. But in the beginning...he would like make every single shot. I don't know...he still does need to be more aggressive. Hopefully he is treated fairly by the refs next season and gets more calls and gets called for less fouls. Hopefully he won't let all the stars dunk on him. He needs an enforcer...

Mobley. Well it's been 4 years. And his role is always changing. But I don't think anyone is going to criticize him. And I think he is going to be moved anyways...if he isn't, he will still be playing 42 minutes per game. Nothing is going to change.

MOOCHIE is the worst. He just wants to show off his hair and have fun. Yes. Love the game. But still...this is professional basketball. Get rid of him. Mainly him. But I don't think we can get rid of him...he'll be here for at least 3 more years.

Unless Bostjan really sucks...which I do not think...he should get to play. BUT SO SHOULD TERENCE MORRIS..they have to be patient. Just hopefully Rice gets injured...

3-point threats...like Tim Thomas, Michael Redd, Eric Piatkowski, and Jon Barry...and Rashard Lewis...and Brent Barry...and Shareef Abdur Rahim.

Most important is better coaches that will design a new system. And mentally prepare players for games. Make them want to win and play defense.

 

Unfortunately, the Nets had Francis two years ago...only his name was Marbury - I can't see that being enough to entice NJ. On the other hand, if Kidd is going to force a sing and trade, which team that Kidd may want to go to would give up more?

 

Posey has the potential to be a very good shooter. Don't trade him. This guy is still improving, quite amazingly.

 

Yao and Francis are hard. Yao has the fundamental skills but lacks the pure intensity that great players have. Yeah he's young but intensity is key if you aren't a great athlete. And make no mistake about it - Yao is NOT a great athlete and never will be.

You want hyperbole. I never believed all the BS crap about him being as athletic as a 6'4" player. He's not anywhere close.

On the other hand, Yao is smart and very motivated. Motivated enough to be more than Smits or anyone like Smits. Yao is a mold not a copy. In other words, I think he's in a class all by himself, somewhere in purgatory. Paired with someone great, he can be great. Paired with someone mediocre, he will be good. Put him on an island and you won't utilize all his skills. When people talk about not "using" him correctly, that's what theyre referring to and I agree with them.

Francis. Who the heck knows. My belief is that he just needs to mature. He's still acts like a petulent child throwing temper tantrums when things don't go his way.

He has skills and is an overacheiver. He wants to win. That is essential. As he gets older he won't drive to the paint 1900 times because his body won't allow it. However, he is super quick and can score on anyone. Problem is when he tries to take over.

You talk about Iverson? Iverson uses his teammates as an excuse not to succeed. The way Don Nelson did with those Sidney Moncrief Milwaukee teams and Run TMC... If we only had a big man blah blah blah. Iverson is just good enough to lead his team to failure. And make no mistake, lots of players (and coaches) do that but you have to pretty dang good for people to notice it - and forgive you. If Allen only had some players around him. BS. He'd still jackup ill advised shots.

Defense:

Can Yao dominate on defense? No. His lateral quickness does not allow him to help out and go back and guard his own man. That is why when he helps on defense, his guy will dunk on him.

And yes, that's exactly why we need a stud PF - to cover up our guards' inability to stop the penetration.

Offense:

This is hard to project. Will Yao be anywhere near a Bill Walton?
There is one key missing ingredient - Someone needs to teach Yao about NBA basketball. Do you really believe Rudy and his staff are incredibly astute basketball teachers? There are a lot of good coaches who aren't necessarily good teachers and vice-versa. We need to get Yao a personal basketball tutor to learn the fine points. Yao is smart and can learn fast. Someone needs to teach him.

Ive already talked about Iverson. I think he's overrated but that's just me.

I don't think Francis will ever be great at the break which pretty much negates Posey's biggest strengths. This is why James Posey on this team is borderline useless.

We know what doesn't work. Think about this. Right now Yao is decent to good - depending on the defense. However, his presence is already past the "good level". His presence on the court already forces teams to respect him. That "presence" should already be enough for his teammates to exploit this.

How many players averaging 13 points/game gets double teamed or have defenses who focus on his every move? That is presence.

If James Posey is wide open, can he make the shot? Whether Yao is good or great, if the open player can't make it, doesn't matter.

And why is EG standing at the 3 point line while Yao is posting up. That's beyond ridiculous.

These are the spare parts that you know will not work already.

As far as Cat. here's the problem with Cat. Great role players understand that they are mere cogs in a more complicated machine. I honestly believe Cat believes he's better than he is.

Also, Cat is not a pure shooter. Think about how often Cat is WIDE open as the ball is swung to him from side to side. It's this inability to hit this type of shots consistently that allows Dallas to beat us with zone defenses.

You got me there.