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Anti-Mormon chants at sporting events, from a Mormon's perspective

Discussion in 'BBS Hangout: Debate & Discussion' started by DarkHorse, Mar 18, 2010.

  1. DarkHorse

    DarkHorse Contributing Member

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    I stumbled onto this blog when I was reading about Jimmer Fredette today, and I thought it was kind of funny. Mostly I'm just posting it as the light-hearted article it was meant to be, but I figured better safe than sorry so I stuck it in the D&D.

    It especially struck me as appropriate to post in these parts because Jazz hate inevitably turns to Mormon hate around here. Kind of a funny article, though.

    http://mormonmatters.org/2010/02/01...-byu-player-haters-talking-anti-mormon-smack/


    "This week, dear Mormon Matters readers, Ask Mormon Girl takes a foray into the wild world of sports.

    Perhaps you’ve heard about the unruly behavior San Diego State University Aztec basketball fans directed at Brigham Young University on Saturday, January 23, when a few dozen SDSU fans dressed up as LDS missionaries (complete with name tags and bike helmets), held signs taunting illness-stricken BYU guard Jimmer Fredette (“Jimmer, which one of your wives gave you mono?”), and compensated for their 71-69 loss by chanting “You’re still Mormon!” at departing BYU players and fans.

    The episode caught national attention when Sports Illustrated’s Seth Davis called the Aztec fan behavior “classless.” Two days later, the Deseret News picked up the story, and the following letter appeared in the askmormongirl@gmail.com inbox:

    Dear Mormon Girl:

    Don’t you live in San Diego? Don’t you work at San Diego State University? Can’t you control your people???!!!

    Signed,

    J. D.

    Yes, J.D., it is true that both my husband and I are full-time employees of San Diego State University, where we have grown to love the beautiful campus and its diverse, bright, hardworking students (many of them first-generation college). I adore the Aztecs who populate my lecture halls, especially when they manage to restrain themselves from thumb-typing illiterate little screeds into their magic phones and focus on the assigned reading.

    But in the world of the sports arena crueler speech customs reign. And my visiting teacher, a multi-generation local, tells me that SDSU animus towards BYU is deep and longstanding. It gets unruly down here at the southwestern fringes of the Book-of-Mormon-belt, where we Mormons are numerous enough to constitute a definite element of the cultural landscape but still few enough to be a small minority. And I bet many folks are feeling a little tender about homemade signs with polygamy jibes and anti-LDS chanting given that only a year has elapsed since the difficult days following the passage of California’s Proposition 8.

    Among the Cougar faithful, reaction to the SDSU incident has broken two ways: some giggle at the missionary dress-ups and dismiss the harsher jibes as regular trashtalking, while others call it “hate speech” and say it would have never been tolerated if the targets were, for example, gays or lesbians or Jews.

    Not so fast, I say: the question of what exactly constitutes “hate speech” deserves sober reflection, and anyone who thinks that gays and lesbians and Jews have it easy should sit down and study the latest California hate crime statistics. Personally, I’d feel more comfortable using the term “hate speech” if someone could identify for me a way in which Mormons are today systematically and structurally discriminated against as Mormons on the basis of our Mormon identity alone, besides encountering bias when one of us runs for president. Does the simple fact of being born Mormon make it statistically more likely that we’ll be turned down for an apartment or a mortgage, or incarcerated, or targeted for public beating, or die an early death? No, no, no, and no.

    And yet, even as I was preparing to finish this column, my husband (who is Jewish) came home this afternoon and related the conversation he had with our neighbor (also Jewish), an SDSU basketball fan. “I can’t stand that Jimmer Fredette,” the neighbor complained. “Man, I hate the Mormons.”

    Did neighbor Aztec fan mean he actually hated the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints? Did he mean he hated me? Or me and my husband’s children? Or was there in his speech a quiet transformation of Mormons into mascots, a metonymic substitution with ugly side effects? Do people say “I hate the Catholics” when they root against Notre Dame? I don’t think so. I don’t know. I’m not sure I have a good handle on the strange, complex, and shifting place we Mormons occupy in American society, and I study religion and race for a living.

    So, J. D., you asked mostly in jest, “Can’t you control those people?” And my unexpectedly serious answer is nope, no one can. All we can control is the way we react to them.

    As clever and giggle-worthy as the missionary dress-up routine was, no one likes to hear the name of their religion hurled as a taunt, especially Cougar fans who look forward to BYU games as a chance to bleacher-bond with the grandkids and other Mormons.

    But it helps to remember that the word Mormon was used in the 1830s as a pejorative and has since become a word that we’re proud to own.

    And in this we do have a clear common experience with other American minorities, including Black folks, Jews, women, and gays and lesbians, who know that the quickest way to neutralize a word designed to wound is to take it back and use it yourself–with pride, with style, and with flair.

    So if this Mormon Girl were in the bleachers that night (I was just across the freeway at my daughter’s preschool benefit) and she heard the “You’re still Mormon!” jeers ringing across the arena, her very first instinct would have been to tuck her Young Womanhood medallion inside her blouse, shout out something in the key of J. Golden Kimball, and huck her leftover nachos at the offending Aztec fans.

    Then, mustering a modicum of self-restraint, she might have quietly devised a clever counter-taunt, something along the lines of: “That’s alright! That’s okay! We’ll baptize your dead someday!”

    Finally, reaching deeper, she would have resolved that the best response to the accusation “You’re still Mormon!” is a resounding “Yes, I am!”

    Readers, what would you say?"
     
  2. Ubiquitin

    Ubiquitin Contributing Member
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    That's very immature and offensive. I may not agree with the LDS views, but I think that this is embarrassing for the students.
     
  3. moestavern19

    moestavern19 Member

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    Pretty tame by most college crowd standards.
     
  4. BleedRocketsRed

    BleedRocketsRed Contributing Member

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    Why can't Rocket fans at Toyota be that creative?

    Okay bad joke.
     
  5. Dairy Ashford

    Dairy Ashford Member

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    Sets a bad precedent, and somewhat out of line. SDSU will probably regulate fan behavior one way or another. Suburban kids right out of high school really are the most obnoxious and annoying people on the planet.
     
  6. SuperBeeKay

    SuperBeeKay Member

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    Didn't SDSU have that black month cookout for that white frat Pike where they hung some noose or something?
     
  7. BleedRocketsRed

    BleedRocketsRed Contributing Member

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    That was UCSD and yeah it was pretty bad.

    -First it was that cookout by their pikes in which they asked everybody to act "ghetto"
    -This broke out and there were protests. Their black student union made some requests. The SD TV station said the words "ungrateful ni*****"
    -Somebody hung a noose in the school library. Turned out to be some minority chick, identity nor race not revealed but she turned herself in.
    -Somebody else place a KKK hood over the school statue (there was supposed to be a festival for Dr. Seusses bday there that day but it got canceled because of all the previous stuff)
     
  8. CrazyDave

    CrazyDave Contributing Member

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    gives it too much attention. Let them look stupid and classless, maybe a sharp remark about it would have sufficed.

    A one line email required a 5 paragraph theme to retort, summing up with thoughts that should be automatic for the people?

    Offensive? Yes. Surprising? Not so much. Worthy of this attention, maybe to some, but to lend it that attention isn't productive, I don't think.
     
  9. Batman Jones

    Batman Jones Contributing Member

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    You're crazy, Dave.

    Bigotry always deserves a response, especially in a country based on ideas of religious freedom and that all men are created equal. Also especially, given our country's less than stellar history of responding to bigotry.

    There's no such thing as overreaching in calling out a bigot.
     
  10. CrazyDave

    CrazyDave Contributing Member

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    Maybe I am crazy, but I said obviously it was offensive, and sometimes it is best not get too wrapped up in arguing with idiots expressing their right to free speech. They will take you down to their level.

    College sports fan losers reaching to get a reaction. Call em out and move on... I guess it's her job to write about such things, not like any harm done by her, just seemed like she took drunk college taunting a little too seriously to me. The neighbor's comment was much more insidious.

    Some people do these things for attention, is all I'm saying. So I might say that there is such a thing as overreaching. Sometimes it is best that we all just shake our heads sadly at some things and move on.
     
  11. Mr. Brightside

    Mr. Brightside Contributing Member

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    What is an LSD missionary?
     
  12. AroundTheWorld

    AroundTheWorld Insufferable 98er
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    I think it is very immature to mock a religion to mock a sports team.

    Imagine the outrage if the same happened to Muslims. I'm sure the first death threats would already have been issued.
     
  13. Steve_Francis_rules

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    What a shock that you would try to turn this into a thread about how violent Muslims are. :rolleyes:
     
  14. FranchiseBlade

    FranchiseBlade Contributing Member
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    Mormons have a 2 year mission they go on. It could be to a foreign land it could be only Vegas. Remember that Shaun Bradley went on one.
     
  15. giddyup

    giddyup Contributing Member

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    Yeah, his was High Post.
     
  16. Baqui99

    Baqui99 Contributing Member

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    I remember at last year's Texas-OU game a couple of Horn fans dressed up as Mormons complete with biking helmets and name tags. They were handing out pamphlets discussing how OU sucks.

    Of course, that came on the heels of OU losing to BYU.
     
  17. DarkHorse

    DarkHorse Contributing Member

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    Not sure if you're joking or not, but just in case, the correct term is "LDS" missionary.

    Most Mormons refer to each other as Latter-Day Saints or LDS. For example, it sounds equally natural for me to say "I'm Mormon" and "I'm LDS."


    And yeah, I think it's pretty well known that most practicing Mormon boys (and some Mormon girls) go on 2 year missions when they're 19.
     
  18. DarkHorse

    DarkHorse Contributing Member

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    By the way, I'd just like to point out that my personal reaction to this isn't necessarily to be super offended. Mostly I think it's just an uneducated/easy taunt, so I guess I fall into that camp.

    I certainly don't consider anti-Mormon sentiment to be hate speech, for the same reasons she mentions in her blog. Being Mormon has never kept me from getting a job, a home, or a place on the bus. (although admittedly I have been personally threatened on several occasions, especially when I was on my mission)

    But this is definitely a real phenomenon. Just wait until the next Jazz game.
     
  19. justtxyank

    justtxyank Contributing Member

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    LOL.

    You should see a therapist to deal with your irrational fear and hatred of Muslims.
     
  20. AroundTheWorld

    AroundTheWorld Insufferable 98er
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    Neither fear nor hatred.

    But anyone who denies that the reaction of at least some from the Muslim community to getting mocked in the same way would be vastly different (in other words more violent and threatening) than, e.g., the reaction of the Mormons is either overly politically correct, delusional or dishonest.
     

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